LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1995
11:00 A.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
(PAGES 13492 THROUGH 13541,
VOLUME 83A, TRANSCRIBED AND
SEALED UNDER SEPARATE COVER.)
THE COURT: GOOD MORNING, COUNSEL.
BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER.
MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT BEFORE THE COURT WITH HIS COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY, PEOPLE REPRESENTED BY MS. CLARK, MR. DARDEN.
THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT.
COUNSEL, IS THERE ANYTHING ELSE THAT WE NEED TO TAKE UP BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?
MR. DOUGLAS: YES, YOUR HONOR, IF THE COURT PLEASES.
THE COURT: MR. DOUGLAS.
MR. DOUGLAS: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
YOUR HONOR, THIS CONCERNS THE VIDEOTAPE THAT THE DEFENSE WAS GIVEN A COPY OF ONLY YESTERDAY FROM THE PROSECUTION, WHICH CLEARLY TURNED OUT TO BE A PIECE OF VERY FAVORABLE EVIDENCE TO MR. SIMPSON'S DEFENSE.
AS THE COURT IS WELL AWARE --
THE COURT: WHICH VIDEOTAPE ARE WE TALKING ABOUT?
MR. DOUGLAS: WE'RE TALKING ABOUT THE RECITAL VIDEOTAPE, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. DOUGLAS: AS THE COURT IS WELL AWARE, THE CASE OF BRADY VERSUS MARYLAND OBLIGATES NOT ONLY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY'S OFFICE, BUT ALSO ITS AGENTS IN THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT TO IMMEDIATELY TURN OVER INFORMATION OR EVIDENCE THAT IS FAVORABLE TO THE ACCUSED.
IN THIS INSTANCE, YOUR HONOR, WE HAPPENED TO LEARN FROM THE PERSON WHO CREATED THAT TAPE, A MR. SCOTT KENNEDY, ONLY LAST WEEK OF ITS EXISTENCE AND WERE ABLE TO SEE IT FOR THE FIRST TIME ONLY LAST FRIDAY WHEN WE WERE ABLE TO RECEIVE A COPY DIRECTLY FROM MR. KENNEDY.
YOUR HONOR, WE HAD RAISED THE ISSUE OF THIS TAPE IN COURT ON THURSDAY, AND BOTH MR. DARDEN AND MISS CLARK CLAIMED TO HAVE HAD NO KNOWLEDGE OF ITS EXISTENCE BUT THAT THEY WOULD CHECK INTO IT. WE LEARNED FROM THE TESTIMONY OF CANDACE GARVEY THAT AT -- ON FRIDAY AFTERNOON, THIS SAME COPY OF THIS TAPE WAS SHOWN TO HER AND SHE HAD A CHANCE TO PREVIEW IT IN PREPARATION FOR HER TESTIMONY.
KENNEDY CLAIMS, YOUR HONOR, THAT HE HAD SENT A COPY OF THE TAPE TO THE PROSECUTION BACK IN JULY. AND SINCE EARLY JULY, WE HAD REPEATEDLY REQUESTED ANY BRADY TYPE MATERIAL AND WERE ASSURED THAT THERE WAS NONE OR THAT WHICH WAS IN THEIR POSSESSION HAD BEEN GIVEN OVER.
YOUR HONOR, TWO WEEKS AGO, I STOOD BEFORE THIS COURT ON THIS -- AT THIS PODIUM AND I WAS LAMBASTED FOR CONDUCT THAT WAS TERMED THE MOST EGREGIOUS IN THE HISTORY OF JURISPRUDENCE. I CHOOSE NOT TO REACH INTO MY BAG OF HYPERBOLE AND WHACK THE PROSECUTION OVER THE HEAD WITH IT FOR THEIR CONDUCT, BUT MY INDIGNATION IS EVERY BIT AS STRONG AND SEVERE.
AND I WORRY, YOUR HONOR. I'VE PRACTICED CRIMINAL LAW FOR 15 YEARS AND THIS HAS INDEED HAPPENED IN OTHER CASES WHERE THERE HAS BEEN A FAILURE TO TURN OVER BRADY TYPE OF MATERIAL. SO IT'S NOT NEW TO ME, YOUR HONOR.
BUT DEPENDING ON THE EXPLANATION THAT THE PEOPLE WOULD OFFER FOR ITS NONDISCLOSURE UNTIL NOW, I THINK THAT THERE IS THE SUPREME RISK FOR THERE TO BE DUE PROCESS VIOLATIONS OF A CONSTITUTIONAL DIMENSION AND I URGE THE COURT TO CONDUCT AN OFFICIAL INQUIRY INTO THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF THIS TAPE COMING INTO THE POSSESSION OF THE PEOPLE, HOW IT WAS THAT THEY WERE IN POSSESSION OF IT FOR SEVEN MONTHS AND DID NOT EITHER REALIZE THAT IT WAS BRADY OR FAILED TO TURN IT OVER TO THE DEFENSE, AND MOST IMPORTANTLY, WHAT SORTS OF MECHANISMS HAVE NOW BEEN IN PLACE TO MAKE SURE THAT THE PEOPLE HAVE DISGORGED THEIR FILES OF ALL BRADY TYPE MATERIALS AND WHAT SORTS OF NEW MECHANISMS ARE NOW IN PLACE TO ASSURE THAT THERE WILL NOT BE A REPEAT OCCURRENCE OF THIS PROBLEM.
YOUR HONOR, I AM ACCEPTING OF THE NOTION THAT SUCH AN INQUIRY CAN BE DONE IN CAMERA, BUT I DO THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT THAT THERE BE CERTAIN EXPLANATIONS BE BROUGHT TO THIS COURT'S ATTENTION; WHEN THE TAPE WAS FIRST RECEIVED, WHO HAD POSSESSION OF IT, HOW DID THEY LEARN OF ITS EXISTENCE ONLY AFTER WE MENTIONED IT IN OPEN COURT, AND AS I SAID EARLIER, WHAT IS GOING TO BE DONE TO MAKE SURE THAT THERE ARE NOT OTHER BRADY TYPE MATERIALS IN THE PEOPLE'S POSSESSION AND WHAT MECHANISMS WILL ASSURE THAT THERE WILL NOT BE A REPEATED OCCURRENCE OF THIS.
AS THE COURT IS AWARE, BRADY REQUIRES THE PEOPLE TO TURN OVER NOT ONLY EVIDENCE THAT IS FAVORABLE ON THE ISSUE OF GUILT OR PUNISHMENT, BUT IT ALSO REQUIRES THE TURNING OVER OF EVIDENCE THAT MAY REFLECT ON THE CREDIBILITY OF MATERIAL WITNESSES.
INDEED, YOUR HONOR, COMMENTATORS HAVE NOTED THAT AS IT RELATES TO BRADY MATERIAL, THE FAR BETTER PRACTICE OF THE PROSECUTION IS TO RESOLVE ANY DOUBTFUL QUESTIONS IN FAVOR OF DISCLOSURE.
THERE ARE, YOUR HONOR, WITNESSES IN THIS CASE THAT ARE VERY MATERIAL. AND I REMEMBER THE WORDS OF MR. SIMPSON AS HE RETURNED BACK TO LOCK-UP LAST NIGHT, WHICH KIND OF ECHOED THE WORDS OF RODNEY KING, THANK GOODNESS FOR VIDEOS.
I WONDER HOW MR. SIMPSON'S DEFENSE AND HIS CROSS-EXAMINATION OF BOTH MISS GARVEY AND DENISE BROWN WOULD HAVE BEEN ADVERSELY AFFECTED HAD THOSE TAPES NOT BEEN TURNED OVER TO US WHEN THEY WERE BECAUSE WE WOULD HAVE BEEN LEFT WITH THE IMAGE OF A BROODING VACANT O.J. SIMPSON RATHER THAN A SMILING HAPPY-GO-LUCKY MAN. AND INDEED, YOUR HONOR, THAT TAPE WAS ABLE TO CLEARLY ILLUMINATE THE TRUE FACTS OF THAT DAY AND ARE VERY CENTRAL TO OUR CASE.
ON THOSE COMMENTS, YOUR HONOR, I'LL SUBMIT THE MATTER.
THE COURT: ANY COMMENT FROM THE PEOPLE?
MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I CAN'T BELIEVE THAT MR. DOUGLAS IS STILL WHINING ABOUT THE SANCTIONS THE COURT IMPOSED A COUPLE OF WEEKS AGO AS A RESULT OF HIS OWN MISCONDUCT REGARDING THE ISSUE OF DISCOVERY.
I CAN NOT SPEAK TO THE ISSUE OF WHEN THE TAPE CAME INTO THE POSSESSION OF THE PROSECUTION BECAUSE I WAS NOT A PART OF THE PROSECUTION TEAM IN THIS MATTER APPARENTLY WHEN THE TAPE CAME INTO OUR POSSESSION. BUT WHEN MR. COCHRAN BROUGHT IT TO OUR --
THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE A ROUGH IDEA WHEN IT WAS?
MR. DARDEN: DO I HAVE A ROUGH ITEM WHEN THAT WAS?
THE COURT: YEAH.
MR. DARDEN: NO. I'M SURE IT'S BEEN UP THERE AWHILE THOUGH. BUT WHEN IT CAME INTO OUR POSSESSION, I DON'T KNOW. MR. COCHRAN BROUGHT IT TO OUR ATTENTION, THEN WE WENT IN SEARCH OF THAT PARTICULAR TAPE. WE HAVE SOME 400 VIDEOTAPES UPSTAIRS AND THAT HAPPENED TO BE ONE OF THEM UNFORTUNATELY.
I WOULD SIMPLY LIKE TO POINT OUT THAT OBVIOUSLY WE WERE NOT HIDING THE TAPE. THE FACT OF THE TAPE'S EXISTENCE APPARENTLY WAS KNOWN TO OTHERS OUTSIDE THE D.A.'S OFFICE. SO WHY WOULD WE HIDE IT?
IT'S A MISTAKE. IT'S ANOTHER INNOCENT MISTAKE IN A SITUATION WHERE YOU HAVE 30,000 PAGES OF DISCOVERY AND HUNDREDS OF VIDEOTAPES. IT HAPPENS.
THE COURT: IS THIS VIDEOTAPE LOGGED IN ANY WAY IN ANY OF THE LOGS THAT WERE DISCLOSED TO THE DEFENSE?
MR. DARDEN: NOT TO MY KNOWLEDGE, NO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. DARDEN: IN FACT, IT WASN'T DISCLOSED IN ANY LOG PROVIDED TO DEPUTY D.A. CHRISTOPHER DARDEN FOR THAT MATTER, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: WELL, LET'S ADDRESS MR. DOUGLAS' REQUEST, THAT HOW ARE WE ASSURED THAT EVERYTHING THAT IS BRADY VERSUS MARYLAND TYPE MATERIAL HAS BEEN IDENTIFIED AND DISGORGED BY THE PROSECUTION?
MR. DARDEN: WILL, I AM CONFIDENT THAT EVERY PIECE OF PAPER AND EVERY AUDIOTAPE THAT WE'RE REQUIRED TO TURN OVER HAS BEEN TURNED OVER AND I'M CONFIDENT NOW THAT EVERY VIDEOTAPE WE'RE REQUIRED TO TURN OVER HAS BEEN TURNED OVER.
AS TO MR. DOUGLAS' CHARACTERIZATION OF THE TAPE AS BEING SOMEWHAT EXCULPATORY, I DISAGREE. I THINK THAT THE DEMEANOR AND APPEARANCE OF THE DEFENDANT IN A VIDEOTAPE IS NOTHING LIKE I'VE EVER SEEN OF THE DEFENDANT. IT DOESN'T EVEN LOOK LIKE HIM. IT LOOKS LIKE AN ENTIRELY DIFFERENT PERSON. AND THAT OF COURSE IS AN ISSUE FOR THE JURY TO RESOLVE.
BUT I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY OTHER PROBLEMS WITH OUR DISCOVERY. I DIDN'T HAVE A CHANCE TO WRITE OUT FIVE OR SIX PAGES OF COMMENTARY FOR THIS MORNING'S PROCEEDING LIKE MR. DOUGLAS DID.
MR. DOUGLAS: I'M JUST HAPPY, YOUR HONOR, MR. DARDEN IS NOT SITTING ON THIS JURY.
I THINK, YOUR HONOR, IT'S INTERESTING HOW EVERYTHING THAT THEY DO IS INNOCENT AND EVERYTHING THAT WE DO IS MISCONDUCT, BUT I'M NOT GOING TO DWELL ON THAT. WHAT I THINK THE IMPORTANT THING IS, YOUR HONOR, IS THAT THERE WAS A PROBLEM, JUST HOW THERE WAS A PROBLEM WITH MARY ANN GERCHAS AND A STATEMENT THERE WAS A PROBLEM APPARENTLY WITH THE VIDEOTAPE IN THE PEOPLE'S POSSESSION SINCE LAST JULY, AND CERTAINLY I THINK THAT THERE HAS NOT BEEN ADEQUATE EXPLANATION FOR THE PROBLEM AND THERE NEEDS TO BE IN CAMERA AN OFFICIAL INQUIRY.
THAT'S ALL THAT I ASK.
THE COURT: THANK, YOU COUNSEL.
ALL RIGHT.
JUST SO IT'S CLEAR, THE COURT ORDERS THE PROSECUTION TO TURN OVER ANY MATERIAL THAT IS DEFINED BY BRADY VERSUS MARYLAND. AND I WILL CONDUCT A LATER INQUIRY AS TO DATE AND TIME AS TO HOW THIS CAME INTO EXISTENCE, WHEN IT WAS TRANSMITTED AND WHETHER OR NOT THERE IS ANY FAILURE TO EFFECTIVELY EVALUATE.
MR. DARDEN: YOUR HONOR, I SHOULD INDICATE MR. HODGMAN MAY BE THE BEST PERSON TO CONVEY THAT INFORMATION TO THE COURT. AND WHEN HE RETURNS, WE WILL INQUIRE.
THE COURT: WHEN WILL MR. HODGMAN BE AVAILABLE AGAIN?
MR. DARDEN: I'M NOT SURE. I HAVE NO FINAL WORD ON THAT ISSUE YET.
MS. CLARK: MAYBE THE END OF THIS WEEK, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: OKAY.
MR. BAILEY: YOUR HONOR, NOT ANOTHER ISSUE, BUT FOR THE RECORD, WE HAVE ASKED THE COURT FOR THE RETURN OF 12 VIDEOTAPES TAKEN FROM THE DEFENDANT'S HOME, AND WE WOULD LIKE THAT DONE EXPEDITIOUSLY. THEY MAY BE USEFUL IN THE CASE.
MS. CLARK: I'VE ALREADY ASSURED MR. BAILEY WE WILL EXAMINE THOSE VIDEOTAPES, THIS IS NOW THE THIRD TIME, AND TURN THEM OVER IF THEY HAVE NO EVIDENTIARY VALUE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
LET ME KNOW IF WE NEED TO TAKE THAT UP LATER.
ALL RIGHT.
ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURY TO REJOIN US?
ALL RIGHT.
LET'S HAVE THE JURY.
MS. CLARK: JUST ONE THING.
MAY I TURN THIS OVER TO THE COURT AND COUNSEL?
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, PLEASE BE SEATED.
GOOD MORNING, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN.
THE JURY: GOOD MORNING.
THE COURT: MY APOLOGIES FOR HAVING KEPT YOU WAITING SO LONG THIS MORNING. THERE WERE SOME VERY DELICATE MATTERS THAT I HAD TO INQUIRE INTO THIS MORNING THAT TOOK A SIGNIFICANT PERIOD OF TIME, AND I APPRECIATE YOUR INDULGENCE IN THIS MATTER.
IT BECAME NECESSARY FOR ME TO EXCUSE ONE OF THE JURORS IN THIS CASE, AND WE WILL NOW AT THIS TIME ASK MRS. ROBERTSON TO DRAW THE NAME OF AN ALTERNATE JUROR TO REPLACE THAT JUROR.
THE CLERK: JUROR NO. 1489, CAN YOU PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN SEAT NO. 10.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
AND LET'S ASK 1492 --
ALL RIGHT.
1492, LET ME ASK YOU TO STAY DOWN THERE IN THE CHEAP SEATS JUST UNTIL MRS. ROBERTSON HAS TIME TO READJUST, AND AFTER THE LUNCH HOUR, WE'LL CHANGE SEATS.
ALL RIGHT.
ARE THE PEOPLE READY TO CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS?
MS. CLARK: YES, WE ARE, YOUR HONOR, THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
YOU MAY PROCEED.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL MISS TIA GAVIN.
TIA GAVIN,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND TO BE SWORN.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: TIA, T-I-A, GAVIN, G-A-V-I-N.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q ARE YOU COMFORTABLE?
A YES, THANKS.
Q MISS GAVIN, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO JUNE 12, 1994, AS OF THAT DATE, WHERE WERE YOU EMPLOYED?
A AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT.
Q AND WHERE IS THAT LOCATED?
A 11750 SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A MAP OF THE AREA THAT I HAVE SHOWN TO COUNSEL, I WOULD ASK BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER.
THE CLERK: 26.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 26.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
(PEO'S 26 FOR ID = MAP OF AREA OF MEZZALUNA)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND SHOWING YOU THIS MAP, IF YOU WOULD LOOK AT IT FOR A MINUTE COMFORTABLY.
A WANT ME TO POINT OUT THE RESTAURANT?
Q JUST A MINUTE. SO THE JURY CAN SEE IT.
MS. CLARK: CAN EVERYBODY SEE IT? NO.
BETTER?
Q BY MS. CLARK: IF YOU COULD USE THE POINTER AND STEP DOWN.
A IT'S RIGHT HERE WHERE THE YELLOW DOT IS (INDICATING).
Q THAT'S THE MEZZALUNA?
A YES, IT IS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
NOW, AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, CAN YOU TELL US WHERE APPROXIMATELY YOU WERE LIVING IN RELATION TO THE MEZZALUNA?
A NORTH -- NORTHEAST ON GORHAM AVENUE.
Q CAN YOU POINT TO THAT LOCATION ROUGHLY, JUST GIVE US AN ESTIMATE?
A UP AROUND THIS AREA (INDICATING).
Q UP ABOVE WHERE THE MAP ENDS?
A YES.
Q DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW SOMEONE -- DID YOU KNOW BACK THEN SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF RON GOLDMAN?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU KNOW WHERE HE LIVED?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS MAP WHERE THAT WAS?
A ON THE SAME BLOCK RIGHT OVER HERE (INDICATING).
Q APPROXIMATELY WHERE THAT BROWN HOUSE IS?
A YES.
Q AND COULD YOU POINT TO THAT BROWN HOUSE FOR THE JURY?
A (WITNESS COMPLIES).
Q AND THAT'S THE SAME AS SHOWN IN THE ICON THERE, RON GOLDMAN?
A YES, IT IS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
YOU CAN HAVE A SEAT. THANK YOU.
NOW, FROM WHERE YOU WERE LIVING AT THAT TIME, HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO WALK TO THE MEZZALUNA?
A TWO MINUTES.
Q AND THEN RON GOLDMAN, DID HE LIVE CLOSER TO THE MEZZALUNA THAN YOU?
A YES, HE DID.
Q AND SO HOW MUCH CLOSER WAS IT?
A ABOUT A HALF A BLOCK CLOSER, PROBABLY TAKE HIM UNDER TWO MINUTES.
Q OKAY.
NOW, WE'RE REFERRING TO THIS PERSON NAMED RON GOLDMAN.
MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH, ASK IT TO BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, PEOPLE'S 27, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 27.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
(PEO'S 27 FOR ID = PHOTO RON GOLDMAN)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 27, CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU RECOGNIZE THE GENTLEMAN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES. YES.
Q AND WHO IS THAT?
A RON GOLDMAN.
Q WHEN DID YOU BEGIN WORKING AT THE MEZZALUNA?
A IN LATE NOVEMBER OF '93.
Q AND DID YOU -- WHEN DID YOU MEET RON GOLDMAN?
A WHEN HE BEGAN WORK THERE IN LATE JANUARY OF '94.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHEN RON GOLDMAN BEGAN WORKING AT THE MEZZALUNA?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS IN JANUARY OF '94.
Q 94?
AND IS THAT WHEN YOU MET HIM?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT CAPACITY DID HE WORK THERE?
A AS A WAITER.
Q AND IN WHAT CAPACITY DID YOU WORK THERE?
A AS A WAITRESS.
Q DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, WERE YOU WORKING AT THE MEZZALUNA ON THAT DATE?
A YES, I WAS.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME YOU CAME IN?
A 5:00 P.M., AROUND THEN.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU -- WHEN YOU WORK AT THE RESTAURANT, WHEN YOU COME IN, DO YOU HAVE TO PUNCH A TIME CLOCK?
A YES, WE DO.
Q AND DO YOU HAVE TO PUNCH OUT AS WELL?
A UH-HUH.
Q IS THAT YES?
A YES.
Q AND IS THAT TRUE FOR EVERYONE WHO WORKS IN THE RESTAURANT?
A YES, EVERYONE EXCEPT I THINK THE MANAGERS. BUT EVERYONE ELSE.
Q AND YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH YOUR OWN TIME CARD AND WHAT THAT LOOKS LIKE?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A TIME CARD. COUNSEL HAS SEEN IT. I ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 28.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PEOPLE'S 28, COPY OF A TIME CARD.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
(PEO'S 28 FOR ID = COPY OF TIME CARD)
THE COURT: AND MISS GAVIN, THERE'S A MONITOR RIGHT THERE.
CAN YOU SEE THAT?
THE WITNESS: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S BEING SHOWN THERE, MA'AM?
A YES. IT'S MY TIME CARD.
Q AND I NOTICE THAT THE NAME THERE IS TIA SMITH.
A THAT'S MY MAIDEN NAME.
Q OKAY.
THAT WAS BEFORE YOU CHANGED IT?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND THAT'S YOUR TIME CARD FROM -- FOR THE WEEK ENDING ON JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
JOHN, IF YOU CAN MOVE IT UP A LITTLE BIT AND SHOW SUNDAY ON THERE.
THERE WE GO.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE WHERE IT SAYS SUNDAY, WHICH WOULD BE JUNE THE 12TH?
A UH-HUH. YES.
Q AND DOES IT SHOW THERE WHERE YOU CLOCKED IN?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND WHAT TIME DOES IT SHOW?
A 5:02 P.M.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
YOU CAN TAKE IT DOWN FOR NOW. THANKS.
Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE RON GOLDMAN?
A YES.
Q WAS HE WORKING THERE ALSO?
A YES, HE WAS.
Q AND DID YOU DISCUSS WHO WAS GOING TO TAKE WHICH TABLE?
A YES.
WE NOTICED -- I NOTICED WHEN I CAME INTO WORK THAT THERE WAS A PARTY OF 10 ON THE RESERVATION BOOK. AND SO WE WERE TRYING TO DECIDE WHO WOULD TAKE THE TABLE, WHAT STATIONS WE'D WORK. AND AT THAT POINT, RON SAW THE NAME AND SAID, "OH, IT'S NICOLE BROWN, IT'S A FRIEND OF MINE."
Q WAS THAT -- DID THAT SEEM TO BE SOMETHING OF BIG SIGNIFICANCE FOR HIM OR WAS IT JUST --
A NO. HE DIDN'T KNOW SHE WAS COMING IN. BUT HE JUST SAID, "OH, THAT'S A FRIEND OF MINE." DIDN'T SEEM LIKE A BIG DEAL.
Q AND SO WHO TOOK THE TABLE THAT WAS FOR THE PARTY OF NICOLE BROWN?
A I DID.
Q WERE THERE ANY OTHER FEMALE WAITRESSES, FEMALE SERVERS THERE THAT NIGHT WORKING IN THE MEZZALUNA?
A YES, I THINK THERE WAS.
Q AND WHO WAS THAT?
A HEATHER NYGREN.
THE COURT: HOW DO YOU SPELL THAT?
THE WITNESS: I THINK IT'S N-Y-G-R-E-N.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SO IT WAS YOU -- WERE YOU TWO THEN THE TWO FEMALE SERVERS THERE THAT NIGHT?
A YES. THERE WERE THREE OF US ALTOGETHER.
Q AND SO --
A RON, HEATHER AND MYSELF.
Q JUST THE THREE OF YOU?
A YES, AS WAITERS.
Q NOW, DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE NICOLE BROWN AND HER PARTY ARRIVE THAT NIGHT?
A YES.
Q ABOUT WHAT TIME DID THEY GET THERE?
A THEY WERE LATE FOR THEIR RESERVATION ABOUT 15 OR 20 MINUTES. SO I'D SAY 6:45 OR 6:50.
Q HOW MANY PEOPLE WERE IN HER PARTY?
A 10.
Q DID IT HAVE -- DID IT INCLUDE ANY CHILDREN?
A YES. THERE WERE FOUR I THINK.
Q HAD YOU EVER MET HER BEFORE THAT NIGHT?
A NO, I HAD NOT.
Q THAT WAS THE FIRST TIME?
A UH-HUH. YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT SHE WAS WEARING?
A YES. A BLACK DRESS, SHORT BLACK DRESS WITH A BLACK BLAZER OVER IT.
Q WAS IT LIKE A HALTER DRESS?
A YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER THERE WERE ANY OLDER PEOPLE IN THE PARTY WITH HER?
A YES, THERE WERE. THERE WAS AN OLDER GENTLEMAN AND WOMAN AS WELL.
Q AND WERE THERE SOME WOMEN APPROXIMATELY HER AGE AS WELL?
A YES.
Q DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER SHE HAD A DATE OR AN ESCORT WITH HER?
A I THINK THE ONLY GENTLEMAN THERE WAS HER FATHER.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME NICOLE AND HER PARTY LEFT?
A BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00, 8:45ISH.
MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH AND ASK YOU TO TELL ME IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHO IT IS AND ASK THAT THIS PHOTOGRAPH BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 29.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 29. YES.
(PEO'S 29 FOR ID = PHOTO OF NBS)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT IS NOW PEOPLE'S 29, CAN YOU TELL ME IF YOU RECOGNIZE WHO THAT IS A PHOTOGRAPH OF?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND WHO IS THAT?
A NICOLE SIMPSON.
Q NICOLE BROWN?
A YES.
Q NOW, DO YOU RECALL -- YOU SAID BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00 THAT THEY LEFT?
A YES.
Q DID THEY -- DID YOU OFFER DESSERT TO THAT PARTY?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND DID NICOLE CHOOSE TO HAVE DESSERT?
A NO. THEY SAID THAT THEY WERE TAKING THE CHILDREN OUT FOR ICE CREAM.
Q DO YOU RECALL SEEING RON GOLDMAN LEAVE BEFORE YOU DID?
A I DON'T REMEMBER SEEING HIM LEAVE THROUGH THE DOOR, WALK OUT, NO.
Q WAS HE -- DID HE GET OFF OR PUNCH OUT HIS TIME CARD BEFORE YOU?
A YES. HE WAS OFF AT LEAST A HALF HOUR BEFORE ME.
Q WAS HE THE FIRST ONE TO GET OFF THAT NIGHT?
A YES, HE WAS.
MS. CLARK: CAN WE BRING IT UP AGAIN, PLEASE?
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU NOW ONCE AGAIN THE TIME CARD FOR SUNDAY, JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, CAN YOU TELL US IF IT SHOWS HERE ON YOUR TIME CARD WHAT TIME YOU CLOCKED OUT?
A 9:50.
Q 9:50 OR 9:58?
A IT'S HARD FOR ME TO TELL ON THE MONITOR BECAUSE THAT CORNER IS --
Q WOULD IT HELP IF I SHOWED YOU --
A YES, THAT'S AN 8. 9:58.
Q THANK YOU.
A THEY BLEW IT UP. THANKS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
WHEN YOU CLOCKED OUT AT 9:58, WAS RON GOLDMAN STILL AT THE RESTAURANT?
A NO, HE WASN'T.
Q ALL RIGHT.
THIS IS THE SAME THING THAT YOU SEE IN PEOPLE'S 26? UP ON THE SCREEN.
DO YOU SEE THE YELLOW DOT YOU PREVIOUSLY IDENTIFIED AS THE LOCATION OF THE MEZZALUNA?
A YES.
Q NOW, ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHERE THE MEZZALUNA IS IN RELATIONSHIP TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU TELL US APPROXIMATELY HOW FAR THE MEZZALUNA IS FROM 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A UH, TWO LONG -- ABOUT TWO AND A HALF, THREE BLOCKS. THEY'RE LONGER BLOCKS, BUT --
Q IF YOU WERE TO WALK THAT DISTANCE, APPROXIMATELY HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU, FROM THE MEZZALUNA TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A UNDER 10 MINUTES.
Q AND CAN YOU ALSO -- ARE THERE TWO ENTRANCES TO THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q WHAT ARE THEY?
A THERE'S THE FRONT DOOR, WHICH IS ON SAN VICENTE, AND THEN THERE'S A BACK DOOR ON GORHAM THAT MOST CUSTOMERS DON'T USE, BUT IT CAN BE USED BY CUSTOMERS. RARELY.
Q WHY DON'T CUSTOMERS USUALLY USE THAT?
A BECAUSE THERE'S A PATIO OUTSIDE AND THERE'S A LITTLE GATE AROUND IT AND THERE IS ACTUALLY A DOOR TO THE GATE THAT OPENS, BUT MOST PEOPLE DON'T EVEN -- IT'S HARD TO TELL THAT THERE'S A DOOR THERE. SO MOST PEOPLE DON'T REALIZE THEY CAN GO IN THAT WAY.
OFTEN, EVEN THE EMPLOYEES, WHEN THEY'RE GOING IN AND OUT OF THERE WILL JUST STEP OVER THE GATE. SO IT'S MUCH MORE INCONVENIENT THAN COMING IN THROUGH THE FRONT DOOR.
Q SO MOST OF THE CUSTOMERS USE THE FRONT DOOR FOR ENTRY AND EXIT?
A YES.
Q AND THAT ENTRANCE AND EXIT WOULD LEAD YOU OUT TO SAN VICENTE?
A UH-HUH. YES.
Q NOW, THE STREET INDICATED RIGHT HERE WHERE I HAVE THE RED DOT (INDICATING) -- CAN YOU SEE THAT?
A YES. THAT'S GORHAM.
Q THAT'S GORHAM?
A UH-HUH.
Q OKAY.
AND THEN THIS STREET HERE IS SAN VICENTE (INDICATING)?
A YES.
Q THANK YOU.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SHAPIRO:
Q GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS GAVIN.
A GOOD AFTERNOON.
Q HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
A VERY GOOD, THANK YOU.
Q DID YOU HAVE AN OPPORTUNITY TO TALK WITH MISS CLARK AND INVESTIGATOR VANNATTER ABOUT THIS CASE?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WAS THAT ON SEPTEMBER THE 15TH OF THIS YEAR?
A YES. THAT SOUNDS RIGHT.
Q AND DURING THAT CONVERSATION, DID YOU INFORM BOTH MISS CLARK AND MR. VANNATTER THAT YOU BELIEVED THE TIME CLOCK WAS OFF ONE HOUR BECAUSE OF DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME?
A WE WERE -- THERE WAS CONFUSION OVER WHETHER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT -- THERE'S A TIME ON THE NCR COMPUTER THAT WE DO OUR CHECKS WITH AND WHATNOT, AND THERE WAS CONFUSING -- WHETHER WE WERE DISCUSSING THE TIME ON THAT, WHICH IS ALWAYS OFF, OR WHETHER IT WAS THE TIME CLOCK.
Q HAVE YOU EVER SEEN A REPORT THAT WAS WRITTEN BY MR. VANNATTER REGARDING YOUR INTERVIEW WITH HIM?
A NO. UH -- NO.
Q DID YOU TELL MISS CLARK AND MR. VANNATTER THAT WHEN YOU LEFT, YOU DID NOT KNOW WHETHER RON GOLDMAN HAD LEFT OR NOT?
A NO. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF I SAID THAT.
Q DID YOU SAY THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW IF RON GOLDMAN WAS STILL THERE WHEN YOU LEFT?
A NO. I WOULD BE SURPRISED IF I SAID THAT.
Q AND -- LET ME SHOW YOU A COPY OF THIS REPORT IF I MIGHT.
DID YOU SEE MR. GOLDMAN SITTING WITH SOMEBODY AT THE TIME YOU LEFT THE RESTAURANT?
A AT THE TIME I LEFT, NO. EARLIER IN THE EVENING, HE WAS SITTING WITH JOHN DEBELLO AND RICHARD ARBOLINO, THE MANAGERS AT THE TIME.
Q SO YOU DID NOT TELL MR. VANNATTER THAT YOU REMEMBER SEEING RON GOLDMAN AFTER HE GOT OFF WORK SITTING AT ONE OF THE TABLES WITH JOHN DEBELLO AT APPROXIMATELY 9:30 P.M.?
A YES. AFTER RON GOT OFF WORK, YES.
I THOUGHT YOU SAID AFTER I LEFT; AS I LEFT, I SAW HIM SITTING THERE. I DID NOT. BUT I SAW HIM SITTING THERE BEFORE HE LEFT. SO, YES.
Q AND THE REPORT CONTINUES:
"SHE STATED SHE DID NOT SEE HIM LEAVE THE RESTAURANT."
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q SO YOU DID NOT SEE RON LEAVE THE RESTAURANT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q "AND SHE STATED THE TIME CLOCK WAS OFF SHE BELIEVED ONE HOUR BECAUSE OF DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME AND WOULD SUPPLY HER TIME CARD FOR JUNE 12TH."
DID YOU SAY THAT?
A I -- I -- YES, I DID. YEAH.
Q DO YOU KNOW IF THE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON PARTY WAS SEATED IMMEDIATELY WHEN THEY CAME IN THE RESTAURANT?
A I THINK THAT THEY PROBABLY WERE BECAUSE THEY WERE LATE AND I DON'T REMEMBER ANYBODY MILLING AROUND BY THE BAR.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION OF WHETHER THEY WERE SEATED IMMEDIATELY OR NOT?
A NO, I DON'T.
Q AND WOULD YOU AGREE THAT IN SERVING 10 PEOPLE, THAT YOU WERE THE ONLY WAIT PERSON DOING THAT JOB?
A YES.
Q AND DOES IT TAKE SOME TIME TO GET THE ORDERS FROM THE KIDS AND TO GET ORGANIZED FOR THAT LARGE A GROUP?
A CERTAINLY.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION AS TO WHAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON HAD FOR DINNER THAT NIGHT?
A NO. NO.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY WAY OF REFRESHING YOUR MEMORY AS TO WHAT SHE HAD FOR DINNER?
A ONLY DISCUSSIONS THAT HAPPENED AFTER THE EVENT.
Q DISCUSSIONS WITH WHO?
A PEOPLE IN THE RESTAURANT, EMPLOYEES, FELLOW EMPLOYEES.
Q AND DID THAT REFRESH YOUR MEMORY AS TO WHAT SHE HAD FOR DINNER?
A YES.
Q AND -- WELL, WHAT DID THEY TELL YOU?
A RIGATONI.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER THERE WAS AN APPETIZER OR ANY STARTER?
A I DON'T. I RECALL THERE WAS ONE BOTTLE OF WINE ORDERED, I THINK IT WAS A BOTTLE OF CHIANTI, AND THAT'S THE ONLY SPECIFIC FOOD ITEM THAT I REMEMBER OR --
Q YOU ANTICIPATED MY NEXT QUESTION.
A OH.
Q THANK YOU. I APPRECIATE THAT.
DO YOU RECALL HOW LONG THE DINNER TOOK FOR THE 10 PEOPLE?
A I BELIEVE ABOUT AN HOUR AND A HALF.
Q SO YOUR ESTIMATE IS BY NO EARLIER THAN 8:30 AND POSSIBLY 9:00 O'CLOCK THE DINNER WAS COMPLETED AND THE PARTY LEFT?
A YES.
Q AND IT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING THEY WERE GOING OUT FOR DESSERT?
A YES. THEY TOLD ME AS MUCH.
Q THANK YOU VERY MUCH. I APPRECIATE IT.
MR. SHAPIRO: NOTHING FURTHER, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: YES.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. SHAPIRO ASKED IF YOU READ THE STATEMENT AND HE OFFERED TO LET YOU READ IT. HE DIDN'T LET YOU READ IT, DID HE?
A NO.
Q I WANT TO LET YOU READ IT NOW.
ASK YOU FIRST TO REVIEW IT, AND THEN I'M GOING TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS ABOUT IT, OKAY?
A (WITNESS COMPLIES).
Q YOU DONE?
A UH-HUH.
Q MR. SHAPIRO ASKED YOU IF YOU EVER TOLD DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT YOU DID NOT KNOW WHETHER RON GOLDMAN WAS STILL THERE WHEN YOU LEFT.
DO YOU RECALL THAT QUESTION?
A JUST NOW?
Q UH-HUH.
A YES.
Q DO YOU SEE ANYWHERE IN THAT REPORT THAT YOU SAID ANY SUCH THING?
A NO.
Q MR. SHAPIRO ALSO ASKED YOU IF YOU TOLD DETECTIVE VANNATTER THAT AT THE TIME YOU LEFT THE RESTAURANT, YOU SAW MR. GOLDMAN SITTING WITH SOMEBODY AT A TABLE, AT THE TIME YOU LEFT.
DO YOU SEE THAT IN THE REPORT ANYWHERE?
A NO. IT SAYS:
"SHE REMEMBERS SEEING RON GOLDMAN AFTER HE GOT OFF WORK SITTING AT ONE OF THE TABLES."
Q BUT NOT THAT YOU SAW THAT AT THE TIME YOU LEFT?
A NO.
Q WITH RESPECT TO THE TIME CLOCK, DO YOU RECALL RESOLVING THAT QUESTION IN YOUR MIND, AS TO WHETHER OR NOT IT WAS OFF DUE TO DAYLIGHT SAVINGS?
A OH, YES.
Q AND WHAT DID YOU DISCOVER?
A THAT IT WAS NOT OFF AND THAT THERE WAS CONFUSION OF WHETHER WE WERE TALKING ABOUT THE TIME ON THE NCR MACHINE OR THE TIME ON THE TIME CLOCK.
Q ARE YOU TALKING -- WHEN YOU SAY THE NCR --
MR. BAILEY: EXCUSE ME, MISS CLARK. YOU'RE BLOCKING THE JURY WITH THAT EXHIBIT.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU SAY THE NCR MACHINE, CAN YOU TELL US WHAT YOU MEAN BY THAT?
A I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT'S CALLED. I THINK THAT'S THE COMPANY THAT MAKES THE COMPUTER. IT'S THE COMPUTER THAT YOU PUT ALL YOUR ORDERS INTO WHEN YOU'RE MAKING ORDERS AND PRINTS THE CHECKS THAT YOU DELIVER TO THE TABLE.
Q KIND OF LIKE THE CASH REGISTER?
A YES.
Q ONLY FANCIER WORD?
A EXCEPT, YEAH, IT DOESN'T HAVE CASH IN IT.
Q SO THAT WAS THE -- THAT WAS THE MACHINE THAT WAS OFF IN TERMS OF TIME?
A YES.
Q SO THE RECEIPTS THAT ARE PRINTED OUT FOR CREDIT PURCHASES OR I GUESS CASH PURCHASES TOO WILL SHOW A TIME FOR THE CUSTOMER THAT IS INCORRECT?
A IT COULD, YEAH. I MEAN IT HAS BEEN OFF QUITE A LOT. I DON'T KNOW WHO REGULATES THAT, BUT --
Q SO IF A CUSTOMER PAYS WITH A CREDIT CARD, THAT MACHINE IS GOING TO PRINT OUT A TIME ON IT THAT IS NOT RELIABLE?
A WHETHER THEY PAY BY CREDIT CARD OR NOT, BECAUSE IT'S NOT RELATED TO THE CREDIT CARD MACHINE, WHICH IS A SEPARATE MACHINE ALTOGETHER. IT IS THE CHECK THAT YOU DELIVER TO THE TABLE.
SO IF THEY KEPT A RECEIPT, IF THEY PAID BY CREDIT CARD, IT MIGHT BE THE CREDIT CARD RECEIPT. IF THEY KEPT THEIR CHECK, THEN THAT WOULD HAVE A TIME ON IT AND THAT WOULD MOST LIKELY NOT BE RIGHT, BUT IT COULD BE.
Q ON THE OTHER HAND, THE TIME CARD CLOCK, THE TIME CLOCK THAT YOU PUNCH IN AND OUT OF, THE EMPLOYEES PUNCH IN AND OUT OF, THAT WAS ACCURATE?
A YES.
Q SO THE TIMES THAT YOU'VE JUST TOLD US ABOUT WHEN YOU PUNCH IN AND OUT OF, YOUR TIME CARD, THOSE ARE CORRECT?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: RECROSS?
MR. SHAPIRO: YES, YOUR HONOR.
YOUR HONOR, MAY WE MARK THE WITNESS' STATEMENT FORM AS DEFENDANT'S I BELIEVE IT'S 1004?
(DEFT'S 1004 FOR ID = WITNESS TG STATEMENT)
MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SHAPIRO:
Q DOES THE LAST --
MS. CLARK: EXCUSE ME. CAN I SEE WHAT COUNSEL IS SHOWING?
MR. SHAPIRO: I'M SORRY.
THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE AN UNMARKED COPY OF THAT, MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: I DO. I'M GIVING IT TO COUNSEL RIGHT NOW.
THE COURT: LET ME HAVE MRS. ROBERTSON RUN BACK AND MAKE A PHOTOCOPY SO YOU DON'T LOSE YOUR COPY.
MRS. ROBERTSON.
MS. CLARK: THERE'S ACTUALLY TWO STATEMENTS.
MR. SHAPIRO: I ONLY NEED THE LATTER ONE FOR A VERY SIMPLE QUESTION.
YOUR HONOR, I CAN CONTINUE WITHOUT SHOWING HER THE REPORT.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: IN READING THE REPORT, DID I ACCURATELY READ TO YOU THOSE STATEMENTS THAT YOU READ TO YOURSELF?
A WELL, I THOUGHT I HEARD YOU SAY, "WHEN YOU LEFT, DID YOU SEE RON GOLDMAN?"
Q PERHAPS I MISSPOKE MYSELF THEN.
OTHER THAN THAT, DID I ACCURATELY READ THAT?
A I BELIEVE SO, YES.
Q SO THERE'S NO CONFUSION, DO YOU HAVE AN INDEPENDENT KNOWLEDGE AS TO WHEN RON GOLDMAN LEFT MEZZALUNA ON JUNE THE 12TH?
A I -- HE LEFT BEFORE I DID, AND THAT'S AS MUCH AS -- AS SPECIFIC AS I CAN BE. THAT I AM SURE OF. EXACTLY WHAT TIME BEFORE ME, I HAVE NO IDEA.
Q BUT YOU DID SEE HIM LEAVE THE RESTAURANT?
A NO, I DIDN'T SEE HIM LEAVE.
Q WELL, HOW DO YOU KNOW HE LEFT BEFORE YOU?
A BECAUSE I WAS IN THE RESTAURANT FOR A GOOD -- THERE'S AT LEAST -- I HAVE MEMORY OF BEING AROUND THE RESTAURANT DOING MY DUTIES, WHATNOT, FOR AT LEAST 20 MINUTES, SPEAKING WITH PEOPLE. IT'S NOT THAT BIG A RESTAURANT. AND I DIDN'T SEE HIM UNLESS HE WAS HIDING SOMEWHERE.
Q ARE THERE ANY REST ROOMS IN THE RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q I TAKE IT YOU DIDN'T CHECK TO SEE IF HE WAS IN THE REST ROOM?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
Q WHAT ABOUT THE KITCHEN AREA OR ANY BACK EMPLOYEE AREAS?
A THERE'S A KITCHEN, A SMALL KITCHEN.
Q DID YOU CHECK THERE?
A I DIDN'T -- I WASN'T CHECKING FOR HIM. I WASN'T --
Q SO YOU ARE SURMISING, ARE YOU NOT --
A YEAH.
Q -- THAT HE --
A BUT OVER THE COURSE OF THE HALF HOUR THAT I WAS THERE AND I DIDN'T SEE HIM, THAT HE WASN'T THERE.
Q BUT YOU DON'T HAVE ANY INDEPENDENT RECOLLECTION OF ACTUALLY SEEING HIM LEAVING THE RESTAURANT?
A NO.
Q THANK YOU.
MR. SHAPIRO: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
I HAVE NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MISS GAVIN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN.
PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE OTHER THAN THE LAWYERS IN THE CASE UNTIL THE CASE HAS BEEN CONCLUDED.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, MA'AM?
THE WITNESS: YES.
THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN.
MISS CLARK, YOUR NEXT WITNESS, PLEASE.
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
PEOPLE CALL STEWART TANNER.
I NEED TO INFORM COUNSEL OF SOMETHING BEFORE --
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
MS. CLARK: -- HE TESTIFIES.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
STEWART TANNER,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
THE WITNESS: YES, I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS STEWART TANNER, S-T-E-W-A-R-T --
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MAY WE APPROACH FOR A MOMENT ON A DISCOVERY ISSUE?
THE COURT: SURE, WITH THE REPORTER, PLEASE.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: WE ARE AT THE SIDEBAR OUT OF THE PRESENCE.
MR. SHAPIRO, YOU HAD A QUESTION?
MR. SHAPIRO: YES.
YOUR HONOR, IT'S MY UNDERSTANDING THAT MISS CLARK HAS JUST TURNED OVER TO MR. COCHRAN SOME NEW DISCOVERY REGARDING MR. TANNER --
THE COURT: UH-HUH.
MR. SHAPIRO: -- ABOUT A STATEMENT THAT SHE JUST FOUND OUT ABOUT RECENTLY.
MS. CLARK: LAST NIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: I GUESS WE SHOULD TALK ABOUT THIS.
MISS CLARK APPROACHED ME AND SAID, "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO BELIEVE THIS." I SAID, "I'M NOT."
AND IT'S SOME DISCOVERY THAT THEY FOUND OUT LAST NIGHT. SO I SAID WE'D BETTER APPROACH THE BENCH ON THIS. I THINK SHE'D BETTER MAKE HER RECORD SO WE CAN OBJECT.
MS. CLARK: I JUST -- I SPOKE TO STEWART TANNER LAST NIGHT. HE TOLD ME LAST NIGHT FOR THE FIRST TIME THAT HE IN FACT HAD LIVED DOWN THE STREET FROM NICOLE IN MONARCH BAY. HE DIDN'T KNOW HER, HE KNEW OF HER; AND THAT A MONTH AND A HALF BEFORE THE MURDERS, HE SAW THE DEFENDANT IN THE RESTAURANT WITH TWO OTHER MEN AND HE ASKED HIM, HE ASKED THE DEFENDANT, "HEY, WHAT HAPPENED TO THAT BLONDE YOU USED TO DATE, THE BLOND FROM MONARCH BAY," AND THE DEFENDANT IN AN ANGRY TONE OF VOICE SAID, "YOU MEAN MY EX-WIFE?"
MR. COCHRAN: NOW, JUDGE, THEY CAN'T GO INTO THAT IT SEEMS TO ME. WE DON'T HAVE ANY REPORT OF THAT. TANNER JUST TELLS HER THIS LAST NIGHT.
THEY HAVE TO INTERVIEW THEIR WITNESSES. THEY CAN'T SURPRISE US WITH THAT KIND OF STUFF THE EVE OF HIS TESTIMONY.
THE COURT: WHAT IS HIS -- MISS CLARK, WHAT'S THE RELEVANCE AT THIS POINT?
MS. CLARK: HE'S IN THE RESTAURANT THAT NIGHT AND HE SEES RON GOLDMAN THERE. HE'S THE BARTENDER. I MEAN --
THE COURT: WHY DON'T WE DO THIS? WHY DON'T WE ALLOW THE PROSECUTION TO GO THROUGH THE MEZZALUNA ASPECT, I'LL GIVE YOU THE OPPORTUNITY TO TALK TO -- REINTERVIEW HIM WHEN WE CONCLUDE TODAY, AND IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED MORE TIME TO GO INTO THAT, YOU CAN. THEY CAN CALL HIM LATER AS TO THAT ASPECT.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU, JUDGE.
THE COURT: BUT LET'S --
MS. CLARK: HOW ABOUT THE FACT HE KNEW HER FROM MONARCH BAY?
MR. COCHRAN: SAME THING.
MS. CLARK: IS THAT A BIG DEAL?
MR. COCHRAN: WE DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT.
MR. SHAPIRO: YES, IT IS.
MR. COCHRAN: WE NEED TO CHECK THIS OUT.
THE COURT: LET'S JUST DO THE MEZZALUNA PART OF IT TODAY.
ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
MISS CLARK, YOU MAY PROCEED.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. TANNER, CAN YOU TELL US HOW YOU WERE EMPLOYED AS OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A I WAS A BARTENDER.
Q AND WHERE WERE YOU A BARTENDER?
A MEZZALUNA.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE THE MEZZALUNA IS LOCATED?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT'S THE LOCATION?
A 11750 SAN VICENTE.
Q CAN I ASK YOU TO TRY TO KEEP YOUR VOICE UP JUST A LITTLE BIT?
A I AM SORRY.
Q THERE YOU GO. TALK INTO IT LIKE A TELEPHONE.
A OKAY.
Q GIANT EXHIBITS.
I'LL LET YOU USE THE POINTER.
CAN YOU SHOW US ON THIS MAP THAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 26 WHAT'S THE LOCATION OF THE MEZZALUNA?
A RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).
Q WHERE THE YELLOW DOT IS?
A CORRECT.
Q THANK YOU.
MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, THE WITNESS HAS POINTED TO THE YELLOW DOT ON THAT EXHIBIT, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: NOTED.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND HOW LONG HAD YOU BEEN WORKING AT THE MEZZALUNA AS OF JANUARY -- EXCUSE ME -- JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A I STARTED EMPLOYMENT THERE AS OF NOVEMBER OF '93.
Q AS OF JUNE OF 1994, WHAT WERE YOUR DUTIES THERE?
A I WAS HIRED AS A WAITER AND THEN MOVED INTO THE BARTENDING POSITION. SO AT THAT PARTICULAR POINT IN TIME, I WAS BARTENDING AND WAITING TABLES. ON THAT PARTICULAR EVENING, I WAS WORKING AS A BARTENDER.
Q AND SO WHEN DID YOU WORK AS A BARTENDER, WHAT NIGHTS?
A SATURDAY, SUNDAY AND MONDAY EVENINGS.
Q AND JUNE THE 12TH WAS A SUNDAY?
A SUNDAY EVENING.
Q SO YOU WERE WORKING AS A BARTENDER?
A CORRECT.
Q AT THE TIME -- AT SOME POINT, DID YOU BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF RON GOLDMAN?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND HOW IS IT THAT YOU HAPPENED TO MEET HIM?
A HE WAS A COWORKER AT MEZZALUNA.
Q I'M GOING TO SHOW YOU A PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 27.
THE COURT: YES. 27.
Q PEOPLE'S 27.
SIR, CAN YOU TELL US, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PERSON?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHO IS THAT?
A THAT'S RON GOLDMAN.
Q AND WHEN WAS IT THAT YOU MET HIM, SIR?
A I BELIEVE HE STARTED HIS EMPLOYMENT AT ABOUT JANUARY OF '94.
Q NOW, WERE YOU ALSO ACQUAINTED WITH SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF NICOLE BROWN?
A YES.
Q AND WAS SHE A REGULAR CUSTOMER AT THE MEZZALUNA?
A YES, SHE WAS.
Q SHOWING YOU THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT'S BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 28, SIR, IF YOU CAN, CAN YOU TELL US, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON SHOWN IN THAT PHOTOGRAPH?
A THAT IS NICOLE BROWN.
Q NOW, ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT YOU SAW RON GOLDMAN AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHAT WAS HE DOING THERE?
A HE WAS WORKING.
Q AS A WAITER?
A AS A WAITER.
Q DID YOU ALSO SEE NICOLE BROWN THAT NIGHT?
A YES, I SAW HER.
Q AND DID SHE COME INTO THE MEZZALUNA ALONE?
A NO. SHE WAS WITH A PARTY OF ABOUT 10 PEOPLE.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT TIME SHE GOT THERE APPROXIMATELY?
A 6:30ISH.
Q DID YOU RECOGNIZE SOME OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE WITH HER IN THAT BIG PARTY?
A YEAH. UMM, SHE WAS WITH -- A FEW OF HER SISTERS WERE THERE, HER MOM AND I BELIEVE HER CHILDREN WERE WITH HER AS WELL.
Q DID YOU MAKE SOME PLANS WITH RON GOLDMAN FOR LATER ON THAT EVENING?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHAT WERE THOSE PLANS?
A UH, WE WERE GOING TO GET TOGETHER AFTER WORK AND MEET AT A BAR IN MARINA DEL REY.
Q CAN YOU TELL US, SIR, IN RELATIONSHIP TO THE MEZZALUNA AND 875 SOUTH BUNDY AND THE RESTAURANT YOU WERE GOING TO MEET HIM AT THAT NIGHT, IS 875 SOUTH BUNDY -- WOULD THAT BE ON HIS WAY TO THAT RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q AND THAT RESTAURANT WAS WHERE?
A IT WAS IN MARINA DEL REY NEAR THE END OF WASHINGTON GOING WEST.
Q SO IF HE WAS GOING TO GO FROM -- WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH WHERE HE LIVED?
A GENERAL VICINITY. NOT THE EXACT LOCATION.
Q VERY CLOSE TO MEZZALUNA, WAS IT?
A WITHIN WALKING DISTANCE.
Q IF HE WERE TO GO FROM HIS HOUSE TO THE RESTAURANT WHERE HE WAS SUPPOSED TO MEET YOU --
A UH-HUH.
Q -- WOULD HE PASS BY 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A HE VERY WELL COULD, YES. THAT WOULD BE ON THE WAY.
Q AND HOW DID YOU PLAN TO GET TOGETHER THAT NIGHT?
A IT WASN'T A DEFINITE PLAN. BASICALLY, RON GOT OFF WORK BEFORE I DID AND UH, HE WAS EITHER GOING TO CALL ME LATER OR I WAS GOING TO CALL HIM.
Q SO RON GOT OFF WORK BEFORE YOU DID?
A YES.
Q DID YOU HAPPEN TO NOTICE WHETHER NICOLE BROWN LEFT THE RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q DID SHE LEAVE BEFORE RON DID?
A YES, SHE DID.
Q DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME SHE LEFT?
A SOMEWHERE IN THE VICINITY OF 8:30 GIVE OR TAKE.
Q NOW, HOW WAS RON DRESSED WHEN HE WAS WORKING IN THE RESTAURANT?
A THE STANDARD UNIFORM IS BLACK PANTS, A WHITE SHIRT, A VEST AND A TIE.
Q AND WAS HE WEARING IT THAT NIGHT?
A YES, HE WAS.
MS. CLARK: MAY I HAVE A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A BAG CONTAINING SOME CLOTHING. I WOULD ASK THAT THE BAG AND ITS CONTENTS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 29.
THE COURT: 30 I BELIEVE.
MS. CLARK: 30.
THE COURT: 30? PEOPLE'S 30, THE BAG AND CONTENTS.
(PEO'S 30 FOR ID = BAG AND CONTENTS/RG'S UNIFORM)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 30 SIR, FIRST I'M GOING TO REMOVE A SHIRT, APPEARS TO BE A WHITE DRESS SHIRT AND A PAIR OF BLACK DRESS SLACKS.
CAN YOU TELL US IF YOU RECOGNIZE THIS CLOTHING?
A THAT WOULD BE OUR STANDARD ATTIRE, CORRECT.
Q WAITER'S UNIFORM THAT YOU DESCRIBED?
A YES.
Q MINUS THE TIE AND THE VEST?
A CORRECT.
Q DOES THIS APPEAR TO BE THE CLOTHING THAT RON WAS WEARING THAT NIGHT WHEN HE LEFT THE RESTAURANT?
A THEY APPEAR TO BE.
Q RATHER, WHEN HE WAS WORKING AT THE RESTAURANT?
A YEAH.
Q APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU LAST SAW RON IN THE RESTAURANT?
A THE -- I THINK HE LEFT SOMEWHERE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OF BEFORE 10:00 O'CLOCK, 10 MINUTES TO 10:00, SOMEWHERE IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD.
I DIDN'T NEVER SEE HIM -- PARDON ME. I NEVER DID SEE HIM LEAVE THE BUILDING. RON HAD WALKED PAST ME GOING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR OF THE RESTAURANT AND SAYING THAT HE WOULD TALK TO ME LATER, BUT I NEVER SAW HIM EXIT OUT THAT FRONT DOOR. I NEVER SAW HIM EXIT OUT THE BACK DOOR EITHER.
Q SO THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM, HE WAS GOING TOWARDS THE FRONT DOOR AREA, BUT YOU DID NOT SEE HIM LEAVE?
A RIGHT.
Q AND THAT WAS AT APPROXIMATELY WHAT TIME?
A QUARTER TO 10:00 ROUGHLY, QUARTER TO 10:00, 10 MINUTES TO 10:00, SOMEWHERE IN THAT --
Q OKAY.
AND WHAT WAS THE LAST THING HE SAID TO YOU?
A HE SAID HE WOULD TALK TO ME LATER.
Q WHAT TIME DID YOU GET HOME, SIR?
A 11:30ISH.
Q DID YOU HEAR FROM RON?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU EVER HEAR FROM HIM AGAIN?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU ATTEMPT TO MAKE CONTACT WITH HIM?
A THE FOLLOWING MORNING, WE WERE SUPPOSED TO WORK TOGETHER, AND I PAGED HIM BECAUSE HE WAS NEVER LATE FOR WORK. AND SO I PAGED HIM SHORTLY AFTER 10:30. ON MONDAYS, WE USUALLY GOT TOGETHER A LITTLE EARLIER FOR COFFEE, BUT HE WASN'T -- HE DIDN'T SHOW.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: I ASK YOU TO LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, MR. TANNER, AND TELL US WHETHER YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS DEPICTED AS ITEM 101, PHOTO NUMBER 101 IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH.
A IT'S A BEEPER.
THE COURT: AND DO WE HAVE A PEOPLE'S EXHIBIT NUMBER ON THIS?
MS. CLARK: WE HAD A DISCOVERY NUMBER THAT WE WERE USING PREVIOUSLY TO IDENTIFY IT FOR THE OPENING STATEMENT, BUT FOR NOW, PERHAPS WE OUGHT TO JUST MARK IT AS PEOPLE'S 31.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PEOPLE'S 31.
(PEO'S 31 FOR ID = PHOTO OF RG'S BEEPER)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND I AM SORRY. DID YOU -- DOES THAT APPEAR -- DID YOU EVER SEE THE BEEPER THAT WAS OWNED BY RON GOLDMAN?
A IT'S JUST YOUR STANDARD BLACK BEEPER THAT WHEN YOU LOOKED AT THE DIGITAL PRINTOUT, IT JUST GAVE YOU A --
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A BOX HERE WHICH IS PRESENTLY SEALED AND ASK THAT IT BE UNSEALED ON THE RECORD.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
DO YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE FOR THE RECORD WHAT YOU'RE DOING, MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. ACTUALLY, I THINK I NEED TO -- CAN I BORROW -- THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MS. CLARK: FOR THE RECORD, I AM CUTTING THROUGH SCOTCH TAPE AND THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT SEAL.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEY AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, FOR THE RECORD, I'VE REMOVED FROM THIS BOX, WHICH CONTAINS OTHER ITEMS, A SMALL MANILA ENVELOPE MARKED WITH THE DR NUMBER PERTAINING TO THIS CASE ITEM NO. 36, PHOTO ID NO. 101.
THE COURT: NOTED.
MS. CLARK: REMOVING FROM THIS PACKAGE WHAT APPEARS TO BE A BEEPER THAT NOW HAS PRINT DUST ON IT COUNSEL AND I ARE FAMILIAR WITH.
I'M GOING TO SHOW IT TO THE WITNESS IF I MAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: AND PEOPLE'S 32.
THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO MAKE THAT 31-A SO IT CORRESPONDS TO THE PHOTOGRAPH?
MS. CLARK: YES, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
31A WILL BE WHAT APPEARS TO BE A WHAT, MOTOROLA BRAVO PAGER?
MS. CLARK: MOTOROLA, YES, THANK YOU.
THE COURT: BRAVO.
(PEO'S 31-A FOR ID = MOTOROLA BRAVO PAGER)
THE WITNESS: YEAH, THAT LOOKS LIKE HIS BEEPER.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND YOU SEE -- THE AREA, SCREEN FOR THE DIGITAL PRINTOUT, YOU SEE THAT?
A CORRECT.
Q CAN YOU DESCRIBE THE -- YOU SAID THAT THERE'S AN ENTRANCE ONTO SAN VICENTE?
A YES.
Q IS THERE A PUBLIC ENTRANCE ALSO THAT LEADS OUT TO GORHAM?
A THERE IS, BUT IT'S NOT OFTEN USED FOR -- THAT'S THE ENTRANCE TO OUR PATIO FOR PATIO DINING, AND THERE IS A SHORT GREEN WROUGHT IRON FENCE THAT ENCOMPASSES THE PATIO UP TO THE BUILDING UH, AND THERE'S A GATE THAT YOU CAN WALK OUT OF ONTO SAN VICENTE. IF YOU WERE TO GO ONTO GORHAM, YOU WOULD HAVE TO STEP OVER THAT FENCE.
Q AND SO WOULD YOU -- IN ORDER TO EXIT ONTO GORHAM, WOULD YOU HAVE TO WALK THROUGH THE PATIO AND STEP OVER THAT GATE, THAT FENCE I MEAN?
A YOU WOULD HAVE TO STEP OVER THE FENCE, YES. YOU WOULD HAVE TO WALK OUT THAT DOOR AND STEP OVER THAT FENCE.
Q AND OTHERWISE, IF YOU WENT OUT EITHER THE FRONT DOOR OR OUT THROUGH THE PATIO AND OUT THAT GATE, YOU WOULD GO ONTO SAN VICENTE?
A CORRECT.
Q AND THAT -- ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH HOW -- APPROXIMATELY HOW FAR 875 SOUTH BUNDY IS FROM THE MEZZALUNA?
A YES.
Q AND HOW FAR IS IT?
A TWO BLOCKS DOWN GORHAM, AND GORHAM RUNS INTO BUNDY AND BUNDY MAKES -- UH, WOULD GO LEFT ONTO BUNDY ABOUT A BLOCK.
Q ABOUT HOW LONG WOULD IT TAKE YOU TO WALK FROM MEZZALUNA TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A FIVE MINUTES.
Q THANK YOU.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, MY EXAMINATION WILL BE QUITE BRIEF, IF YOU'D LIKE ME TO DO IT BEFORE THE LUNCH HOUR.
THE COURT: PLEASE.
MR. SHAPIRO: PERHAPS MISS CLARK CAN HELP US. I AM GOING TO NEED THE DOCUMENT -- MINE HAS UNDERLINING ON IT -- IT'S IN THE HOMICIDE BOOK, PAGE 368.
THE COURT: AND, MR. DARDEN, COULD I GET YOU TO JUST MOVE THIS EASEL BACK ABOUT A FOOT AND A HALF?
MS. CLARK: SURE, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: I JUST NOTICE THAT WE'RE BLOCKING TWO OF OUR JURORS HERE.
THERE WE GO.
MS. CLARK: BETTER?
THE COURT: BETTER. THANK YOU.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SHAPIRO:
Q GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. TANNER.
A GOOD AFTERNOON MR. SHAPIRO.
Q HOW ARE YOU TODAY?
A GOOD.
Q HAD YOU ON PREVIOUS OCCASIONS GONE OUT WITH RON GOLDMAN AFTER WORK?
A MAYBE ONE TIME. MAYBE NOT. BUT NOT -- NOT -- IT WASN'T LIKE WE WENT OUT ON A REGULAR BASIS. WE WERE JUST STARTING TO THE POINT OF BECOMING GOOD FRIENDS.
Q AND HAD YOU DISCUSSED WHERE YOU WERE GOING TO GO IN MARINA DEL REY?
A YES, WE HAD.
Q WHERE WERE YOU GOING TO GO?
A WE WERE GOING TO GO TO THE BAJA CANTINA.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A IT'S A MEXICAN BAR AND RESTAURANT.
Q AND YOU WERE GOING TO TOUCH BASES ABOUT 11:30?
A THERE WAS NO SET TIME. LIKE I SAID, IT WAS -- UH, HE WAS GOING TO EITHER GIVE ME A CALL AT THE RESTAURANT OR I WAS GOING TO CALL HIM.
AND BASICALLY WHAT HAPPENED WAS, WE GOT BUSY AND I ENDED UP STAYING LATER THAN I THOUGHT, AND I GOT HOME AND I HADN'T RECEIVED A CALL. SO I JUST DECIDED, YOU KNOW WHAT, I'M TIRED, I'M GOING TO GO TO BED.
Q WOULD YOU FIND IT A GENERAL HABIT OF RON THAT AFTER HE LEFT WORK, IF HE WAS GOING TO GO OUT, THAT HE WAS CONCERNED ABOUT HIS PHYSICAL APPEARANCE AND THAT HE WOULD CHANGE HIS CLOTHES?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. CALLS FOR SPECULATION, VAGUE.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: DO YOU HAVE ANY OPINION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT RON MIGHT TAKE A SHOWER AFTER WORKING ALL DAY AND BEFORE GOING OUT TO A BAR IN THE EVENING?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. HIS OPINION IS IRRELEVANT. CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: HE SAYS HE ONLY WENT OUT WITH THE GUY ONCE BEFORE. IT'S CALLING FOR SPECULATION.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: YOU TOLD US THAT YOU NEVER ACTUALLY SAW RON LEAVE THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q DO YOU KNOW IF HE HAD ANYTHING TO EAT BEFORE HE GOT OFF WORK?
A UH, I DIDN'T SEE HIM EAT AFTER HE WAS DONE WITH WORK. I DON'T KNOW IF HE DID OR NOT. YOU KNOW, I WAS STILL WORKING.
Q IT'S A SMALL RESTAURANT. DO YOU ASSUME IF HE SAT DOWN AND ATE WITH THE MANAGER, THAT YOU WOULD SEE IT?
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT CALLS FOR SPECULATION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
THE WITNESS: OKAY.
UMM, HE SAT DOWN WITH THE MANAGER AFTER HE WAS DONE WITH WORK. HE DIDN'T EAT.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: HE DID NOT EAT?
A HE DID NOT. HE HAD A BOTTLE OF WATER IN FRONT OF HIM.
Q DID YOU SERVE ANY WINE TO THE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON PARTY?
A I COULDN'T TELL YOU. I DIDN'T WAIT ON THE TABLE. I -- I -- WHEN A DRINK TICKET COMES UP, I SEE THE WAITER'S NAME. I DON'T LOOK AT THE TABLE NUMBER. IF WINE WENT TO THAT TABLE, I DON'T KNOW.
Q DID YOU HAVE AN INTERVIEW WITH TWO MEMBERS OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT, AN INVESTIGATOR CARR AND INVESTIGATOR TIPPIN?
A I DON'T REMEMBER THE NAMES, BUT I DID -- I WAS INTERVIEWED BY TWO GENTLEMEN ON MONDAY THE -- THE MONDAY AFTER THE MURDERS.
Q AND DID THEY WRITE A REPORT?
A YES, THEY DID.
Q AND IN THAT REPORT -- HAVE YOU SEEN THAT REPORT?
A I THINK WE WENT OVER THIS THE LAST TIME I WAS HERE.
Q SO YOU HAVE SEEN IT?
A YES.
Q SO YOU KNOW WHAT I'M REFERRING TO?
A I KNOW WHAT YOU'RE REFERRING TO, YES.
Q AND IN THAT REPORT, THEY INDICATED THAT YOU HAD A CONVERSATION ABOUT SOME GLASSES THAT HAD BEEN LEFT AT THE RESTAURANT AND THAT THEIR REPORT INDICATES, QUOTE, RON VOLUNTEERED TO TAKE THE GLASSES TO HER HOUSE.
A CORRECT.
Q DO YOU RECALL THAT BEING IN THE REPORT?
A I RECALL THAT BEING IN THE REPORT, YES, I DO.
Q AND IT'S YOUR RECOLLECTION THAT YOU NEVER SAID THAT TO THE OFFICERS?
A I -- AGAIN, WE GOT INTO THIS LAST TIME.
I DON'T REMEMBER IF I DID OR DIDN'T SAY IT TO THE OFFICERS, BUT I MAY HAVE BEEN TOLD THAT DAY BY KAREN CRAWFORD THAT HE WAS TAKING THOSE GLASSES BECAUSE I DID SPEAK TO HER BEFORE THEY GOT THERE.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER LAST TIME WE TALKED ABOUT THIS, YOU SAID, "QUITE POSSIBLY I DIDN'T SAY IT"?
A YES, I DID SAY THAT.
Q THANK YOU.
MR. SHAPIRO: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ANY REDIRECT?
MS. CLARK: NO, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
NO FURTHER QUESTIONS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. TANNER, THANK YOU VERY MUCH. YOU ARE EXCUSED.
PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE OTHER THAN THE ATTORNEYS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN CONCLUDED.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, SIR.
ALL RIGHT.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE NOON HOUR. I WANT YOU TO LISTEN VERY CAREFULLY TO ME, HOWEVER, BEFORE I RELEASE YOU.
IF YOU RECALL, EVERY TIME THAT I EXCUSE YOU, I TELL YOU NOT TO DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES, FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE OR ALLOW YOURSELF TO BE ENGAGED IN ANY TYPE OF INAPPROPRIATE CONDUCT.
WHEN I SAY NOT TO DISCUSS THE CASE, I MEAN EVERYTHING THAT GOES ON HERE IN THE COURTROOM IS NOT TO ENTER INTO -- IS NOT TO BE A TOPIC OF YOUR DISCUSSION. THAT MEANS, YOU'RE NOT TO DISCUSS HOW LONG THE CASE IS TAKING, YOU ARE NOT TO DISCUSS WHAT GOES ON AT THE SIDEBAR, YOU ARE NOT TO DISCUSS THE APPAREL OF THE ATTORNEYS, YOU ARE NOT TO DISCUSS THE PERSONALITIES OF THE COURTROOM PERSONNEL. ANYTHING THAT IS CONNECTED WITH THIS CASE, YOU MAY NOT DISCUSS AMONGST YOURSELVES.
YOU UNDERSTAND THAT? SO THAT ORDER IS VERY CLEAR.
ALL RIGHT. HAVE A VERY PLEASANT LUNCH, AND WE'LL SEE YOU BACK HERE AT 1:30.
ALL RIGHT.
WE'LL BE IN RECESS.
THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
(AT 12:10 P.M., THE NOON RECESS
WAS TAKEN UNTIL 1:30 P.M. OF
THE SAME DAY.)
LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, FEBRUARY 7, 1995
1:31 P.M.
DEPARTMENT NO. 103 HON. LANCE A. ITO, JUDGE
APPEARANCES:
(APPEARANCES AS HERETOFORE NOTED.)
(JANET M. MOXHAM, CSR NO. 4855, OFFICIAL REPORTER.) (CHRISTINE M. OLSON, CSR NO. 2378, OFFICIAL REPORTER.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER.
MR. SIMPSON IS AGAIN PRESENT WITH COUNSEL, MR. SHAPIRO, MR. COCHRAN, MR. DOUGLAS, MR. BAILEY. THE PEOPLE ARE REPRESENTED BY MISS CLARK AND MR. DARDEN.
THE JURY IS NOT PRESENT.
COUNSEL, ANYTHING WE NEED TO DISCUSS BEFORE WE INVITE THE JURORS TO JOIN US?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: WHAT IS THAT?
MR. COCHRAN: CAN WE APPROACH FIRST AND TALK ABOUT THIS?
THE COURT: SURE.
MS. CLARK: I DON'T KNOW WHY WE NEED TO APPROACH. I WANT TO MARK THE ENVELOPE WITH THE GLASSES.
MR. COCHRAN: I HADN'T SEEN IT. I JUST WANTED TO BE ABLE TO HAVE HER OPEN IT AND TAKE A LOOK. CAN WE APPROACH AND COME BACK OUT?
THE COURT: SURE. WE DON'T NEED THE REPORTER?
MR. COCHRAN: NOT AT THIS TIME.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THE PEOPLE HAVE -- WE HAVE TAKEN OUT THE GLASSES THAT WERE IN THE ENVELOPE THAT IS DEPICTED IN SOME OF THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT WAS GIVEN TO RON GOLDMAN -- THAT WAS GIVEN TO RON GOLDMAN BY KAREN CRAWFORD ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12TH.
IN THE PHOTOGRAPHS YOU ARE UNABLE TO SEE THE GLASSES, YOU ARE UNABLE TO SEE THE HANDWRITING WHICH SHE PLACED ON THE ENVELOPE WHICH I WOULD LIKE TO ASK HER TO IDENTIFY AND THAT WILL HELP HER TO IDENTIFY THE FACT THAT THIS IS THE ENVELOPE THAT SHE PUT THE GLASSES IN AND THAT SHE GAVE TO RON GOLDMAN THAT NIGHT AND THIS IS THE ENVELOPE THAT IS DEPICTED IN THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS.
SO AS SOON AS WE GET A PLASTIC BAG IN WHICH TO ENCLOSE THESE -- THIS ITEM, I WOULD LIKE TO BE ABLE TO PRESENT IT TO THE WITNESS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MR. DARDEN, IS THERE SOMEBODY FROM YOUR LAB UPSTAIRS WHO IS BRINGING US SOME TYPE OF SEALABLE CONTAINER?
MR. DARDEN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. DARDEN: IT WILL BE HERE SHORTLY.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, HOW DO YOU PROPOSE WE DEAL WITH THE OTHER PROBLEM WITH THAT, ANY 352 OBJECTION TO THAT?
MS. CLARK: I DON'T -- THIS IS EVIDENCE THAT WAS RECOVERED FROM THE CRIME SCENE, YOUR HONOR, THAT WAS SAMPLED BY THE CRIMINALIST, THAT IS KEY EVIDENCE IN TERMS OF RON GOLDMAN'S DEPARTURE FROM THE RESTAURANT AND THE PURPOSE FOR WHICH HE DEPARTED.
AND CLEARLY THE PURPOSE --
THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND THE RELEVANCE OF THE MATTER. I'M JUST CONCERNED ABOUT THE CONDITION, SINCE IT APPEARS TO BE BLOOD-SOAKED AND DIRT-SOAKED.
MS. CLARK: IT IS INDEED, YOUR HONOR, BUT THERE IS NO WAY FOR THE JURY TO SEE FROM THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS THE HANDWRITING OF THE WITNESS OR FOR THE WITNESS TO BE ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE ENVELOPE WITH CERTAINTY IN THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS BECAUSE THE FRONT OF IT IS NOT SHOWN IN ANY OF THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS, NOR IS ONE ABLE TO SEE THE GLASSES ENCASED INSIDE THE ENVELOPE IN THESE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS.
THERE IS SO MUCH HIDDEN BY THE CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS THAT THERE IS NO WAY THE JURY CAN GET ALL OF THE INFORMATION FROM IT OR THAT THE WITNESS CAN ADEQUATELY IDENTIFY IT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WE OUGHT TO AT LEAST IDENTIFY THE BAG AND ITS CONTENTS AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, WHICH I BELIEVE WOULD BE PEOPLE'S 32.
THE CLERK: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 32 -- I TAKE IT YOU ARE OFFERING THIS?
MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.
THE COURT: THE SMALL LUNCH BAG, BROWN PAPER BAG, CONTENTS, WHICH APPEARS TO BE A WHITE ENVELOPE, BUSINESS SIZE, AND APPEARS TO BE CONTENTS OF -- CONTAINING A PAIR OF EYEGLASSES.
(PEO'S 32 FOR ID = BAG W/ENV W/GLASSES)
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR.
I WANTED TO JUST FOR THE RECORD INDICATE WE HAVE SOME CONCERN, SOME 352 CONCERNS, AS THE COURT HAS EXPRESSED, WHERE THE PROBATIVE VALUE IS OUTWEIGHED BY THE PREJUDICIAL EFFECT OF THE ITEM.
IT SEEMS TO ME, HAVING DISCUSSED IT AT SIDE BAR, WHAT COUNSEL WANTS TO SHOW, THAT IF THERE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS IN WHICH I IMAGINE THERE ARE, OF THIS OBJECT, IT WOULD BE EASIER TO DEAL WITH THE PHOTOGRAPHS THAN THE OBJECT. IT IS GOING TO BE VERY DIFFICULT TO BE HANDLED AT ANY POINT. COUNSEL HAS ON GLOVES. WE DON'T HAVE GLOVES ON. THE JURORS AREN'T GOING TO HAVE GLOVES AT SOME POINT.
AND IT PRESENTS A NUMBER OF PROBLEMS, BUT QUITE SPECIFICALLY STATED, IT IS A 352 PROBLEM WHERE THE PREJUDICIAL EFFECT WILL BE OUTWEIGHED BY THE PROBATIVE VALUE. IF THERE ARE INITIALS OR WRITING ON IT, WE HAVE NO PROBLEM TO STIPULATING WHAT THE WRITING SAYS. WE HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH WHO MAY HAVE HANDLED THIS AND THE FACT THERE ARE GLASSES THEREIN.
BUT IF IT IS AN ATTEMPT TO JUST INFLAME THE PASSIONS OF THE JURY, IT WOULD BE INAPPROPRIATE UNDER 352 AND THAT IS OUR CONCERN AND WE ASK THE COURT TO DO WHAT IS MOST REASONABLE UNDER THE CIRCUMSTANCES.
AND IF THERE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS, WE WOULD LIKE TO SEE THEM AND SEE IF YOU CAN COMPARE THOSE PHOTOGRAPHS.
MS. CLARK: COUNSEL HAS SEEN ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS NOW FOR SEVEN MONTHS AND KNOWS --
MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS NOT THE QUESTION. I JUST WANT TO SEE -- IF THERE ARE PHOTOGRAPHS RELATING TO THIS I WANT TO SEE THEM NOW AT THIS POINT. THERE ARE HUNDREDS OF PHOTOGRAPHS.
MS. CLARK: WE WILL BE DELIGHTED TO SHOW COUNSEL, BUT IT WILL BEAR OUT WHAT I HAVE INFORMED THE COURT OF, WHICH IS A VERY LIMITED VIEW, AND THE JURY IS ENTITLED TO SEE HOW THIS WITNESS CAN IDENTIFY THIS PARTICULAR CRIME SCENE ENVELOPE AS THE ONE THAT SHE PUT THE GLASSES INTO AND SHE CAN'T DO THAT UNTIL SHE SEES HER HANDWRITING.
THE COURT: HOW ARE YOU ANTICIPATING PRESENTING THIS TO THE WITNESS? SHOWING IT TO HER IN A SEALED BAG? HOPEFULLY -- YOU ARE PLANNING ON USING THE ELMO OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT WITH IT?
MS. CLARK: THE ELMO WITH RESPECT TO CRIME SCENE PHOTOGRAPHS, YES, I WOULD USE THAT, BUT I'M GOING TO ENCASE THIS ITEM IN A SEALED PLASTIC ENVELOPE SO THAT ANY HEALTH CONCERNS OR DANGERS THAT MIGHT -- THAT COUNSEL HAS RAISED WILL BE RESOLVED WITH THAT.
ADDITIONALLY, I WOULD LIKE TO INFORM COUNSEL I'M GOING TO MARK AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER WITH THIS NEXT WITNESS, THE -- I JUST -- IT WAS JUST PLACED ON COUNSEL TABLE TODAY -- THE BILL SHOWING AN ITEMIZATION OF WHAT WAS ORDERED BY NICOLE AND HER PARTY ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE 12, 1994.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE WILL MARK THAT AS PEOPLE'S 33, RESTAURANT BILL.
(PEO'S 33 FOR ID = MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT BILL)
MR. COCHRAN: WE HAVEN'T SEEN THIS BEFORE.
MS. CLARK: NEITHER HAVE I. IT WAS JUST BROUGHT TO ME AFTER THE LUNCH HOUR AFTER I WALKED INTO COURT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WOULD YOU HAND IT TO MRS. ROBERTSON AND SHE WILL MAKE TWO COPIES.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, CAN THE COURT MAKE INQUIRY WHERE THAT HAS BEEN ALL THIS TIME AND WHERE THIS JUST CAME FROM THIS MORNING?
THE COURT: MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: APPARENTLY THE RESTAURANT KEEPS A RECORD -- I DIDN'T KNOW THIS BECAUSE I DIDN'T ASK FOR IT AND I DIDN'T KNOW SUCH A THING EXISTED, AND I GUESS THEY ARE WATCHING -- PERHAPS SOMEONE KNOWS THAT COUNSEL HAS BEEN ASKING WHAT EVERYBODY ATE FOR DINNER AND THEY ARE TRYING TO HELP OUT.
IF COUNSEL WANTS TO KNOW, NOW COUNSEL HAS A RECORD.
MR. SHAPIRO: I WONDER IF THOSE WERE WITNESSES THAT ARE GOING TO BE CALLED AND ARE WATCHING THE TELEVISION IN VIOLATION OF THE COURT'S ORDER.
MS. CLARK: WELL, ALL OF THE WITNESSES THAT ARE GOING TO TESTIFY FROM THE MEZZALUNA HAVE TESTIFIED, OR THE ONE WHO HAS NOT YET TESTIFIED WHO IS IN COURT, SO IT COULDN'T BE ANYONE IN VIOLATION OF THE COURT ORDER. THEY WERE ALL HERE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL AND
THE DEFENDANT.)
MS. CLARK: AND IF COUNSEL WANTS THE INFORMATION, INSTEAD OF JUST FINDING --
THE COURT: DO WE HAVE ANY ABSOLUTELY CLEAR BAGS WITHOUT THE -- ARE THEY ALL WITH THAT --
MR. DARDEN: ONLY THE BAGS THE BAG CAME WITH, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: NO, NOT WHAT I HAD IN MIND.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: IS THERE WRITING ON BOTH SIDES OF THAT?
MS. CLARK: THERE IS IN THE SENSE THAT THERE IS CRIMINALIST'S WRITING ON THE OTHER SIDE THAT WILL PROBABLY -- DO YOU WANT ME TO TURN IT AROUND?
THE COURT: I'M JUST WONDERING HOW YOU ARE GOING TO PRESENT IT.
MS. CLARK: RIGHT. WHAT WE NEED IS ACTUALLY A CLEAR -- PUT IT IN A CLEAR BAG.
THE COURT: BECAUSE I'M RELUCTANT TO HAVE WITNESSES HANDLE THAT TYPE OF EVIDENCE.
MS. CLARK: SURE. HOW ABOUT -- MAY I ASK THIS, YOUR HONOR, IF FOR TODAY I HAVE IT SEALED WITH THE WRITING SHOWING, SHOW THAT THE WITNESS CAN IDENTIFY IT, AND THAT WE TRANSFER IT INTO A COMPLETELY CLEAR BAG FOR SUBSEQUENT TESTIMONY, BECAUSE THIS CAN BE SEALED THIS WAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. WE WILL DO THAT.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK, ARE YOU TELLING US THAT THE -- THIS BILL FROM THE MEZZALUNA JUST SORT OF SHOWED UP THIS AFTERNOON?
MS. CLARK: YES. I HAD ASKED THAT THE ORIGINAL TIME CARDS BE FORWARDED TO ME SO COULD I SHOW THEM TO COUNSEL BECAUSE WE HAD BEEN USING XEROX COPIES AND I WANTED COUNSEL TO BE ABLE TO ASCERTAIN THAT THE COPIES WERE ACCURATE AND TRUE COPIES OF THE ORIGINALS, AND ALONG WITH THAT CAME THE ITEM THAT I JUST INDICATED, AS WELL AS THIS WHITE RECEIPT, CREDIT CARD RECEIPT THAT IS SIGNED "NICOLE BROWN" FOR THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH.
I DIDN'T KNOW THAT THESE ITEMS HAD BEEN PRESERVED.
THE COURT: AND DO THOSE ITEMS APPEAR TO BE ORIGINALS?
MS. CLARK: THEY DO.
MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS SOME WRITING --
MR. SHAPIRO: THERE IS SOME WRITING. THE ONE THAT I HAVE, YOUR HONOR, SAYS "CASH."
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. COUNSEL, WHY DON'T YOU TAKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXAMINE THOSE ITEMS, AND MRS. ROBERTSON NOW HAS A NEW SUPPLY OF GLOVES IF YOU NEED THEM, ANY COUNSEL.
MS. CLARK: THERE IS -- THERE IS A CREDIT CARD RECEIPT HERE FROM AMERICAN EXPRESS FOR JUNE THE 12TH THAT IS SIGNED BY NICOLE BROWN. THE AMOUNT OF THE -- TOTAL AMOUNT OF THE CHECK WAS 179.95. THAT AMOUNT IS SHOWN ON THIS RECEIPT IN ADDITION TO A TIP THAT WAS ADDED FOR $34.00 WITH A TOTAL OF 213.95, SO THIS WAS PAID BY AMERICAN EXPRESS.
AND I'M SURE THAT IF WE HAVE TIME TO SIT DOWN WITH THE NEXT WITNESS, WE CAN HAVE HER EXPLAIN.
THE COURT: WELL, DO COUNSEL WANT TO TALK TO THE WITNESS WHO BROUGHT THESE IN BEFORE WE CALL HER?
MR. COCHRAN: THE PROBLEM IS, YOUR HONOR, THIS SUDDENLY MATERIALIZES ON THEIR SIDE OF THE TABLE. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS. WE WANT TO TALK TO THE WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: I AGREE.
MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS A PROBLEM WITH REGARD TO THE TIME CARD. IT HAS BEEN ALTERED AND WE WANT THE DOCUMENTS THE WAY THEY WERE IN AT THAT TIME SO WE HAVE NO EDITORIALIZING. WE WANT TO ADDRESS THAT. WE WOULD LIKE TO TALK TO THE WITNESS IF WE CAN DO THAT.
MS. CLARK: I DON'T KNOW WHAT COUNSEL IS TALKING ABOUT EDITORIALIZING. THE TIME CARD FOR RON GOLDMAN IS INTACT AS IT WAS WHEN HE SIGNED IT IN AND OUT. THE ONLY DIFFERENCE IS THAT THE MANAGER AT THE TIME SIGNED OFF AND WROTE "DECEASED."
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PUTTING THAT ASIDE, SINCE THERE IS NO DISPUTE TO THAT, COUNSEL, DO YOU HAVE ANY OBJECTION TO TAKING A BRIEF RECESS, ALLOWING COUNSEL TO SPEAK WITH THE CUSTODIAN WHO JUST -- OF RECORDS WHO JUST BROUGHT THESE ITEMS IN?
MS. CLARK: I DON'T KNOW IF THERE IS A CUSTODIAN OF RECORDS PRESENT. I'M JUST INFORMED THE CUSTODIAN OF RECORD IS LISA JO BARNES. THERE WAS -- THESE ITEMS WERE GIVEN TO US AT 1:00 P.M. I FIRST SAW THEM AT 1:30 WHEN I WALKED INTO COURT, AND I WOULD BE DELIGHTED TO HAVE COUNSEL SIT AND TALK TO HER. I WOULD LIKE TO AS WELL.
THE COURT: IS SHE PRESENT?
MS. CLARK: SHE IS NOT. SHE IS AT THE OFFICE.
SHE CAN BE REACHED BY PHONE? SHE CAN BE REACHED BY PHONE.
THE COURT: LET'S TAKE TEN MINUTES. WHY DON'T YOU CALL HER BY PHONE AND CHAT WITH HER AND SEE IF THERE IS ANY QUESTION AS TO THE AUTHENTICITY OR ANY OTHER FOUNDATION.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, THE RECORD SHOULD REFLECT THE COPY I RECEIVED INDICATES THERE WERE NINE GUESTS, THE DATE IS JUNE 13 AND THE TIME IS 7:04 A.M.
MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE PROBLEM THAT WAS REFERRED TO EARLIER BY THE WITNESSES, THAT THE TIME STAMP ON THESE -- ON THESE NCR RECORDS IS INCORRECT. THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT WE JUST HAD TESTIMONY ABOUT, IF COUNSEL WERE PAYING ATTENTION.
MR. SHAPIRO: I THOUGHT THEY SAID THAT IT WAS A CHANGE BECAUSE OF DAYLIGHT SAVINGS TIME. USUALLY THAT IS ONE HOUR CALIFORNIA TIME.
MS. CLARK: NO, NO, NO.
THE COURT: COUNSEL --
MS. CLARK: THERE WAS AN INDICATION THAT THEY WERE CONCERNED --
THE COURT: COUNSEL, EXCUSE ME. LET'S NOT ARGUE ABOUT THAT. WE WILL TAKE A BRIEF RECESS.
COUNSEL CAN CALL THIS WITNESS, EXAMINE THE RECORDS. IF THERE IS SOME -- I TAKE IT, MISS CLARK, YOU WANT TO OFFER THESE RECORDS WITH THE NEXT WITNESS?
MS. CLARK: I THINK I DO, YOUR HONOR, IF I COULD HAVE A CHANCE TO TALK TO HER ABOUT IT. I'M SURE SHE COULD AUTHENTICATE AND EXPLAIN -- LAY THE FOUNDATION FOR THIS, BECAUSE SHE WORKS THERE AND IS FAMILIAR WITH THE WORKINGS OF THOSE MACHINES.
THE COURT: OKAY. SO I TAKE IT YOU WOULD LIKE A FEW MOMENTS TO DO THAT?
MS. CLARK: I SURE WOULD. I APPRECIATE THAT.
PERHAPS MR. SHAPIRO CAN TAKE THIS TIME TO REVIEW THE RECORD AND SEE WHAT THE WITNESS HAS TESTIFIED TO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. 15.
(RECESS.)
THE COURT: OKAY. BACK ON THE RECORD IN THE SIMPSON MATTER. ALL PARTIES ARE AGAIN PRESENT.
COUNSEL, HAVE YOU HAD THE OPPORTUNITY TO DISCUSS THESE LATE ARRIVING DOCUMENTS?
MR. COCHRAN: YES, WE HAVE, YOUR HONOR, AND I THINK THAT MR. DOUGLAS HAS HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH THE WITNESS. WE HAVE NOW HAD AN OPPORTUNITY TO SPEAK WITH THE WITNESS.
THERE IS A BOARD OF PICTURES OF THE AKITA, HOWEVER, THAT WE WOULD HAVE A PROBLEM WITH, AND I WANT TO TALK TO THE COURT BEFORE MISS CLARK USES THOSE PICTURES.
THE COURT: WHICH PICTURES ARE THESE?
MS. CLARK: WE HAVE PICTURES OF THE AKITA. THE PICTURES WERE TURNED OVER TO COUNSEL AND THEY ARE PRESENTLY ON A BOARD.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MAY I SEE THE BOARD, PLEASE.
MS. CLARK: HIGHLY PREJUDICIAL MATTER. PICTURES OF A DOG.
THE COURT: WHAT IS THE --
MS. CLARK: LAST ONE IS THE COLLAR.
THE COURT: COLLAR. WHAT IS THE DOG STANDING ON THERE? LOOKS LIKE A PAD OF SOME SORT.
MS. CLARK: WHAT IS IT SITTING ON? A DOGGIE BED.
THE COURT: I CAN'T SEE DIRECTLY WHAT IT IS.
MR. COCHRAN: IT IS A TOWEL.
MS. CLARK: IT IS A TOWEL.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHEN WERE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN?
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY?
THE COURT: COUNSEL, WHEN WERE THESE PHOTOGRAPHS TAKEN?
MS. CLARK: UMM, ABOUT A WEEK OR TWO AGO AND THEY WERE -- COUNSEL HAS THE PICTURES. THEY WERE TURNED OVER TO THEM.
MR. COCHRAN: WE SAW THEM WITHIN THE LAST WEEK.
THE COURT: OKAY.
MS. CLARK: COUNSEL GOT THEM AS SOON AS WE DID.
MR. COCHRAN: THERE IS NO WAY WE WILL EVER KNOW THAT FOR SURE. WE JUST SAW THEM ON THIS BOARD TODAY AND WE JUST CALLED IT TO YOUR ATTENTION.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: JUST LIKE EVERYTHING ELSE WE HAVE SEEN TODAY. WE HAVE A RIGHT TO KNOW ABOUT THIS.
MS. CLARK: THE BOARDS JUST GOT MADE, COUNSEL. IT WAS JUST DELIVERED TO ME THIS MORNING. IT JUST GOT MADE. I'M SHOWING IT TO YOU AS SOON AS I GOT IT.
THE COURT: HERE IT IS.
MS. CLARK: AND THE COURT INDICATED THAT IT WANTED US TO DO THE SHOW AND TELL PRIOR TO THE JURY SEEING IT. I HAVE OTHER BOARDS THAT WERE MADE UP THAT WILL NOT COME UP FOR QUITE SOME TIME THAT HAVE ALSO BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL.
AS SOON AS THESE THINGS WERE MADE --
THE COURT: OKAY.
MS. CLARK: -- I SHOWED THEM.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. I TAKE IT YOU HAVE SEEN IT AND YOU HAVE NO OBJECTION?
MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE SEEN IT NOW. I HAVE NOTED FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, WE GOT THE PHOTOGRAPHS WITHIN THE LAST WEEK. I'LL SUBMIT IT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. ALL RIGHT. ANYTHING ELSE BEFORE WE ASK OUR JURORS TO JOIN US?
MS. CLARK: DOES MR. DOUGLAS WANT TO TALK TO MRS. CRAWFORD ANY FURTHER?
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MS. CLARK: WE WILL BE OFFERING THESE TWO ITEMS INTO EVIDENCE.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: THERE MAY BE SOME FOUNDATIONAL QUESTIONS. WE HAVE TALKED TO HER BUT WE ARE NOT NECESSARILY WAIVING ANY FOUNDATION.
THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IF WE COULD, COULD WE MOVE OUR BOX HERE TO NOT BLOCK THE JURY.
MS. CLARK: YES. WE WILL MOVE EVERYTHING, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: HAVE WE RESOLVED THE ISSUE OF THE ENVELOPE?
THE COURT: YES. I WILL ALLOW THE WITNESS TO BE SHOWN THE ENVELOPE AND ITS CONTENTS.
MR. COCHRAN: ON THE ELMO?
THE COURT: WE WILL USE THE ELMO FOR IT. ITS ACTUAL PRESENTATION TO THE JURY IN ITS PRESENT CONDITION, I WILL HOLD OFF.
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY, THERE IS TOO MUCH NOISE. I COULDN'T HEAR YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: THE ACTUAL PRESENTATION OF THE ENVELOPE AND IT CONTENTS TO THE JURY I WILL TAKE UP LATER TO SEE IF THERE ARE ANY PHOTOGRAPHS THAT ACCURATELY SHOW WHAT IS DEPICTED THERE.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: BUT FOR TODAY'S PURPOSE, WE CAN USE THE ACTUAL EXHIBIT ITSELF.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: AND I HAVE ONE OF THE LAW CLERKS DOWN AT SAV-ON BUYING ZIPPER-LOCK BAGS RIGHT NOW, MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: SHOULD BE FORTHCOMING.
MS. CLARK: I SAW HER ON HER WAY OUT.
THE COURT: OKAY. ARE WE READY?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: ARE WE SURE? ALL RIGHT.
LET'S HAVE THE JURY, PLEASE.
ALL RIGHT. MISS CRAWFORD IS OUR NEXT WITNESS, MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: I'M SORRY?
THE COURT: MISS CRAWFORD IS OUR NEXT WITNESS?
MS. CLARK: MISS CRAWFORD IS MY NEXT WITNESS, YES.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED.
ALL RIGHT. LET THE RECORD REFLECT WE HAVE NOW BEEN REJOINED BY ALL THE MEMBERS OF OUR JURY PANEL.
AND MISS CLARK, YOU MAY CALL YOUR NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THE PEOPLE CALL MISS KAREN CRAWFORD.
KAREN CRAWFORD,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE BE SEATED ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: KAREN CRAWFORD, K-A-R-E-N C-R-A-W-F-O-R-D.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MISS CRAWFORD, CAN YOU PLEASE TELL US WHAT YOU DO FOR A LIVING.
A I WORK AT MEZZALUNA.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A IT IS A RESTAURANT IN BRENTWOOD.
Q LOCATED AT?
A IT IS ON SAN VICENTE BOULEVARD.
Q IS IT -- CAN YOU TELL US, IS THAT AN INTERSECTION?
A IT IS ON THE CORNER OF GORHAM AND SAN VICENTE.
Q OKAY. DIRECTLY TO YOUR LEFT IS A GREAT BIG CHART THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 26. IF YOU WOULD, PLEASE, POINT TO THE AREA WHERE THE MEZZALUNA IS LOCATED ON THIS. USE THE POINTER.
A IT IS RIGHT HERE, RIGHT ON THE CORNER, (INDICATING).
Q INDICATING THAT YELLOW DOT?
A (NODS HEAD UP AND DOWN.)
Q IS THAT YES?
A YES.
Q THANK YOU.
HOW LONG HAVE YOU BEEN WORKING THERE?
A HOW LONG HAVE I BEEN WORKING THERE? FOR A YEAR AND A HALF NOW.
Q BACK ON JUNE THE 12TH, WHAT WAS YOUR POSITION AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A I WAS THE MANAGER ON SUNDAY NIGHTS AND I BARTENDED.
Q NOW, ON THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, THAT WAS A SUNDAY?
A YES.
Q AND SO WHAT WAS YOUR -- WHAT WERE YOUR DUTIES THAT NIGHT?
A WELL, I WAS MANAGING THAT DAY, SO I CAME IN AND I OPENED THE RESTAURANT AND THROUGH THE COURSE OF THE EVENING I JUST OVERSAW THE OPERATIONS AND THEN I CLOSED UP, I DID REPORTS, THINGS LIKE THAT.
Q IN THE COURSE OF YOUR EMPLOYMENT AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT DID YOU MEET NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
A YES.
Q SHE WAS A REGULAR CUSTOMER THERE?
A YES.
Q DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE PHOTOGRAPH THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 28, I ASK YOU IF YOU RECOGNIZE HER?
A YES.
Q IS THAT NICOLE BROWN?
A YES.
Q WERE YOU ALSO ACQUAINTED WITH SOMEONE BY THE NAME OF RON GOLDMAN?
A YES.
Q DO YOU SEE HIS PHOTOGRAPH THERE?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 27.
THE COURT: YES.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q AND HOW DID YOU BECOME ACQUAINTED WITH HIM?
A I KNEW HIM THROUGH WORK.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHEN HE BEGAN WORKING AT THE MEZZALUNA?
A HE STARTED WORKING AT MEZZALUNA ABOUT FOUR MONTHS BEFORE JUNE 12.
Q EARLY IN 1994?
A YES.
Q WHEN NICOLE BROWN HAD COME TO THE RESTAURANT ON PREVIOUS OCCASIONS DID YOU SPEAK TO HER?
A YES.
Q BRIEFLY EXCHANGE HI, HOW ARE YOU?
A JUST NICETIES.
Q DO YOU RECALL SEEING HER IN THE RESTAURANT ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A YES, I DID.
Q DO YOU RECALL APPROXIMATELY WHEN SHE ARRIVED?
A I BELIEVE SHE ARRIVED BETWEEN 6:30 AND 7:00.
Q WAS SHE ALONE?
A NO, SHE WAS WITH A LARGE GROUP.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL WHO WAS IN THAT LARGE GROUP?
A THERE WERE SEVERAL ADULTS AND SOME CHILDREN.
Q NOW, DO YOU KNOW WHAT RON GOLDMAN DID AT THE RESTAURANT, WHAT WAS HIS JOB?
A RON WAS A WAITER.
Q AND HE WAS WORKING THERE THAT NIGHT ON JUNE THE 12TH?
A YES, HE WAS.
Q DID HE WAIT ON NICOLE'S PARTY?
A NO, HE DIDN'T.
Q NOW, DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL WHERE NICOLE AND HER PARTY --
THE COURT: I'M SORRY, MISS CRAWFORD, COULD YOU PULL THE MICROPHONE A LITTLE CLOSER TO YOU THERE, PLEASE, AND ANGLE IT OVER TOWARDS YOURSELF. IT WILL TWIST THERE. THE WITNESS: (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHERE NICOLE AND HER PARTY WERE SEATED?
A YEAH. THEY WERE SEATED ACROSS THE FRONT OF THE RESTAURANT IN FRONT OF THE BAR AREA.
Q WHY THERE?
A WELL, WE HAD TO SET UP A TABLE FOR THEIR PARTY, IT WAS A LARGE GROUP, AND THAT IS NORMALLY WHERE WE SET UP A LARGE TABLE.
Q OKAY. DO YOU HAPPEN TO RECALL WHAT SHE WAS WEARING THAT NIGHT?
A SHE HAD ON A BLACK HALTER DRESS.
Q WAS IT ABOVE THE KNEE?
A YES.
Q WHILE WE ARE PREPARING TO SHOW YOU AN EXHIBIT, LET ME ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS.
DO YOU HAVE A MACHINE THAT THE SERVERS ENTER THE ORDERS INTO?
A YES.
Q AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE WAY THAT MACHINE OPERATES?
A YES.
Q HAVE YOU YOURSELF OPERATED IT?
A YES, I HAVE.
Q AND ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE PAPER THAT IT PRINTS OUTS INDICATING WHAT A CUSTOMER HAS ORDERED AND THE TOTAL --
A YES.
Q -- AMOUNT OF THE FOOD SERVED?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER THE SERVER'S NAME IS INDICATED ON THAT PIECE OF PAPER?
A IT IS ON THE PAPER.
Q NOW, THERE IS A TIME STAMP THAT IS CREATED BY THAT MACHINE; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q IS IT ACCURATE?
A NO, IT HAS NEVER BEEN ACCURATE.
Q DOES ANYONE USE IT OR RELY ON IT AS TO FIX A TIME AS TO WHEN ANY PARTICULAR PARTY WAS SERVED?
A NO.
Q AND WERE YOU SHOWN SUCH AN ITEM TODAY WHEN YOU CAME INTO COURT?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: I'M GOING TO ASK THAT THIS BLUE RECEIPT, AT THE TOP OF WHICH IS HANDWRITTEN "NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON" MEZZALUNA JUNE 12, 1994, BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 33.
(PEO'S 33 FOR ID = MEZZALUNA RECEIPT)
MS. CLARK: AND A WHITE RECEIPT WITH THE APPARENT SIGNATURE OF NICOLE BROWN BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 34. MAYBE 33-A WILL BE BETTER.
THE COURT: IT IS A SEPARATE DOCUMENT.
MS. CLARK: 34.
THE COURT: 34. I THINK IT IS A CREDIT CARD.
MS. CLARK: CREDIT CARD RECEIPT.
THE COURT: SO IT IS SEPARATE.
MS. CLARK: SEPARATE.
(PEO'S 34 FOR ID = CREDIT CARD RECEIPT)
Q BY MS. CLARK: FIRST I WOULD LIKE TO SHOW YOU -- I WILL TELL YOU WHAT, I WILL PUT IT ON THE ELMO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CRAWFORD, DO YOU SEE THE MONITOR RIGHT THERE?
THE WITNESS: YES.
Q BY MS. CLARK: CAN YOU SEE IT ON THE MONITOR?
A YES.
Q OKAY. NOW, IS THIS THE PIECE OF PAPER WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT THAT COMES OUT OF THE MACHINE THAT THE SERVER PUNCHES THE ORDER INTO?
A YES.
Q AND IS THIS --
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: EXCUSE ME JUST A MOMENT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DOES THAT HELP A LITTLE?
A THAT'S FINE.
Q CAN YOU TELL BY THIS DOCUMENT WHO WAS THE SERVER THAT NIGHT?
A YES, TIA WAS THE SERVER.
Q OKAY. IT INDICATES A NUMBER OF GUESTS AS NINE?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU TELL US ABOUT THAT? IS THAT AN ACCURATE AND -- NECESSARILY AN ACCURATE NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE THAT WERE PRESENT IN THAT PARTY?
A NOT ALWAYS. IF THERE ARE A LOT OF CHILDREN IN THE PARTY THEY MAY COUNT TWO CHILDREN AS ONE GUEST.
Q AND WHY IS THAT?
A BECAUSE THEY TEND TO EAT LESS.
Q NOW, YOU CAN SEE ON THAT PIECE OF PAPER THAT IT SAYS, "JUNE 13 AT 7:04 A.M."?
A YES.
Q IS THAT ACCURATE?
A NO, THAT IS INCORRECT.
Q IS THAT TIME OF DAY STAMP ALWAYS INCORRECT?
A AS FAR AS I KNOW AS LONG AS I HAVE WORKED THERE, YES.
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU MOVE THAT UP JUST A LITTLE BIT. CAN YOU MOVE THAT UP A LITTLE BIT TO SHOW THE TOTAL.
Q NOW, DOES THIS SHOW YOU WHAT EVERYBODY ORDERED FOR DINNER THAT NIGHT?
A YES, IT DOES.
Q AND IT SHOWS YOU THE TOTAL AMOUNT THAT IT CAME TO -- THAT IT COST?
A YES.
Q 179.95?
A YES.
Q IT ALSO SHOWS A PHONE NUMBER AT THE BOTTOM OF THE RECEIPT?
A YES.
Q DO YOU SEE THAT?
A UH-HUH.
Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PHONE NUMBER?
A I DO, HOWEVER, THE AREA CODE IS WRONG.
Q IT IS NOW 310?
A RIGHT.
Q THE PHONE NUMBER, IS THAT FOR THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: CAN YOU PULL IT BACK DOWN.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: THERE WAS A TIME ON THE TOP OF THAT I BELIEVE INDICATED 7:04 A.M.?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. 7:04 A.M.
OKAY. WE ARE SHOWING YOU THE OTHER SIDE OF IT NOW.
AT THE TOP OF THIS OTHER SIDE IT SHOWS THE TIME OF 8:18 A.M. ON JUNE 12?
A YES.
Q THAT IS OF COURSE STILL INCORRECT?
A THAT IS STILL INCORRECT, YES.
Q BUT CAN YOU TELL FROM THIS APPROXIMATELY WHEN THE CHECK WAS OPENED AND WHEN IT WAS CLOSED IN TERMS OF HOW MUCH TIME ELAPSED BETWEEN THE TIME THE ORDER WAS PLACED AND THE TIME THAT THE CHECK WAS PAID?
A YEAH. THAT WOULD BE A CORRECT LAPSE OF TIME.
Q SO IT IS AN HOUR AND 14 MINUTES FROM THE TIME THAT THE ORDER WAS PLACED TO THE TIME THAT THE CHECK WAS PAID?
A YES.
Q AND THEN THAT DOESN'T INDICATE THAT THE PARTY NECESSARILY LEFT, DOES IT?
A NO, IT DOESN'T. IT JUST INDICATES WHEN THE CHECK WAS CLOSED OUT BY THE SERVER.
Q OKAY. NOW, IN THE TOP AS I FACE IT LEFT-HAND CORNER YOU SEE "CASH"?
A YES.
Q DOES THAT MEAN THAT IT WAS PAID IN CASH?
A NO, IT DOESN'T. IT JUST MEANS THAT THE CHECK WAS CLOSED OUT.
MR. FAIRTLOUGH: WE WILL REQUIRE A BRIEF THIRTY SECONDS, YOUR HONOR, IN ORDER TO MAKE THE PRINT.
MS. CLARK: THAT IS OKAY. WE CAN PROCEED WITH THE TESTIMONY.
Q AT SOME POINT DID YOU SEE NICOLE AND HER PARTY LEAVE?
A UMM, YES, I DID.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER ABOUT WHAT TIME THAT WAS?
A I WOULD SAY SOMEWHERE BETWEEN 8:30 AND 9:00.
Q JUST BACKING UP FOR A MINUTE, DO YOU SEE WHAT IS ON THE MONITOR NOW?
A YES.
Q OKAY. THIS IS PEOPLE'S 34. CAN YOU TELL US WHAT THAT IS?
A IT IS A CREDIT CARD RECEIPT.
Q AND DOES THAT REFLECT PAYMENT OF THE AMOUNT THAT WAS INDICATED IN THAT BLUE PIECE OF PAPER THAT THE NCR MACHINE PRINTED OUT FOR 179.95?
A YES.
Q AND IT IS -- A GRATUITY WAS ADDED ON OF 34?
A YES.
Q FOR A TOTAL OF 213.95?
A YES.
Q DID YOU LOOK AT THAT PIECE OF PAPER WHEN YOU CAME INTO COURT TODAY?
A I DID, YES.
Q DID IT APPEAR TO YOU TO BE THE ORIGINAL?
A YES, IT WAS THE ORIGINAL.
MS. CLARK: MOVE IT UP.
Q THE SIGNATURE ON THE BOTTOM APPEARS TO BE NICOLE BROWN?
A YES.
Q IS IT YOUR HABIT AND CUSTOM IN A RESTAURANT TO HAVE THE CUSTOMER WRITE IN THE GRATUITY AND THEN FILL IN THE TOTAL?
A YES.
Q AND THEN SIGN?
A YES.
Q AND IT APPEARS TO HAVE BEEN DONE IN THIS CASE AS WELL?
A YES, IT HAS.
Q NOW, THIS SHOWS A DATE OF JUNE 12?
A YEAH.
Q AND A TIME OF 7:00 P.M.?
A YEAH.
THE COURT: 7:12.
Q BY MS. CLARK: 7:12 P.M.?
A YES.
Q IS THAT ACCURATE?
A NO, THAT IS NOT ACCURATE EITHER.
Q OKAY. SO NEITHER YOUR CREDIT CARD MACHINE NOR THE NCR THAT YOU PUNCH THE ORDERS INTO HAS CORRECT TIMES IN IT?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q IS THE DATE CORRECT ON YOUR CREDIT CARD MACHINE?
A THE DATE IS CORRECT, YES.
Q THE TIME IS WRONG?
A THE TIME IS WRONG.
Q THEN THIS RECEIPT -- THIS CREDIT CARD RECEIPT REFLECTS PAYMENT FOR THE ORDER SHOWN IN THE PREVIOUS DOCUMENT MARKED PEOPLE'S 33?
A YES.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. AFTER NICOLE AND HER PARTY LEFT, DID YOU HAPPEN TO SEE RON GOLDMAN?
A YES, I DID.
Q WERE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE METHOD OF TIME -- TIME STAMPING TO PUNCH IN AND OUT ON A TIME CARD FOR THE EMPLOYEES?
A YES.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE THAT TIME CLOCK IS KEPT?
A YES, I DO.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM GO IN THAT DIRECTION AT SOME POINT?
A I DIDN'T ACTUALLY SEE HIM GO PUNCH OUT.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM GO TOWARDS WHERE HE WOULD HAVE TO GO TO PUNCH OUT AT THE TIME CLOCK?
A UMM, YES.
Q AND DOES EVERYBODY HAVE TO PUNCH IN AND OUT WHEN THEY COME TO WORK AND LEAVE?
A YES.
Q NOW, AS MANAGER ARE YOU FAMILIAR WITH THE METHOD OF COMPUTING THE TIME CARDS AND DO YOU HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH MAINTAINING THE HOURS?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS THAT?
A I WOULD SIGN PEOPLE OUT AND ON SUNDAYS I WOULD ADD UP EVERYONE'S TIME CARD FOR THE WEEK.
Q AND DID YOU DO THAT ON JUNE THE 12TH AS WELL?
A YES, I DID.
Q SHORTLY AFTER YOU SAW RON GO TO THE AREA WHERE THE TIME CLOCK IS KEPT THAT EVENING, SHORTLY AFTER THAT, DID YOU GET A PHONE CALL?
A YES, I DID.
Q DO YOU REMEMBER WHAT TIME, APPROXIMATELY, THAT YOU GOT THAT PHONE CALL?
A IT WAS ABOUT 9:30, 9:35.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MS. CLARK: THIS IS ANOTHER BOARD, YOUR HONOR, THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL.
I WOULD ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 39 -- 35.
THE COURT: 35.
MS. CLARK: 35.
(PEO'S 35 FOR ID = BOARD/JUDITHA BRN PHONE RCDS)
MS. CLARK: IT IS ENTITLED "JUDITHA BROWN PHONE RECORD, JUNE 12, 1994."
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, IN THE INTERESTS OF SAVING TIME, SINCE I DON'T THINK THIS WITNESS CAN AUTHENTICATE THOSE PHONE RECORDS, FOR THE PURPOSE OF THIS WITNESS' TESTIMONY, WE WOULD STIPULATE THAT THE RECORDS ARE ACCURATE AND DEPICT THE TIME THAT THE CALL CAME INTO THE RESTAURANT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. IS THAT STIPULATION AGREEABLE TO THE PEOPLE?
MS. CLARK: YES, THAT STIPULATION IS AGREEABLE.
THANK YOU.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, I TOLD YOU DURING THE COURSE OF OUR INSTRUCTIONS THAT WHAT THE ATTORNEYS SAY DURING THE COURSE OF THE TRIAL IS NOT EVIDENCE; HOWEVER, IN A SITUATION WHERE THE ATTORNEYS STIPULATE AND AGREE TO A CERTAIN FACT, YOU ARE TO ACCEPT THAT AS EVIDENCE IN THE CASE.
ALL RIGHT. MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE PHONE NUMBER ON THE FIRST LINE THERE WHERE IT SAYS "JUNE THE 12TH, 9:37 P.M., WEST LOS ANGELES" AND THEN THERE IS A PHONE NUMBER, "310 447-8667"?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND WHAT PHONE NUMBER IS THAT?
A THAT IS THE PHONE NUMBER TO MEZZALUNA.
Q AND THE TIME THAT YOU RECEIVED THAT CALL, THE 9:37, DOES THAT SEEM TO BE ACCURATE, BASED ON YOUR MEMORY?
A YEAH, IT DOES.
Q AND JUST BEFORE YOU GOT THAT CALL YOU SAW RON GO BACK TO WHERE THE TIME CLOCK IS KEPT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU RECOGNIZE THE VOICE OF THE PERSON THAT YOU SPOKE TO?
A I DID, YES.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT -- WHO WAS THAT VOICE?
A IT WAS MRS. BROWN.
Q NICOLE'S MOTHER?
A YES.
Q AND DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING?
A SHE DID.
Q AND WHAT WAS THAT?
A UMM, SHE ASKED ME TO LOOK FOR A PAIR OF GLASSES SHE HAD LOST AT THE RESTAURANT.
Q OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I LOOKED AROUND THE RESTAURANT AND WHEN I DIDN'T FIND THEM OUT THERE, I REMEMBERED I HAD SEEN THEM COMING IN FROM OUTSIDE, SO I LOOKED OUTSIDE.
Q OKAY. NOW, DID YOU PUT HER ON HOLD OR DID YOU CALL HER BACK?
A I PUT HER ON HOLD.
Q AND DID YOU FIND THE GLASSES?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHERE DID YOU FIND THEM?
A I FOUND THEM IN THE STREET BY THE GUTTER.
Q OKAY. AND WHAT DID YOU DO WITH THEM?
A I BROUGHT THEM BACK IN AND I SPOKE TO MRS. BROWN AND TOLD HER I HAD FOUND THEM. I PUT THEM IN AN ENVELOPE.
Q WHAT KIND OF ENVELOPE DID YOU PUT THEM IN?
A I PUT IT IN A WHITE BUSINESS-SIZED ENVELOPE.
Q OKAY. DID YOU WRITE ANYTHING ON IT?
A YES. I WROTE "NICOLE SIMPSON PRESCRIPTION GLASSES."
Q DID YOU SEAL IT?
A YES.
Q DID YOU ASK HER -- DID YOU ASK MS. BROWN WHAT SHE WANTED DONE WITH THOSE GLASSES?
A YES, I DID.
Q WHAT DID SHE TELL YOU?
A SHE TOLD ME THAT SHE COULD NOT PICK THEM UP, SHE LIVED TOO FAR AWAY, AND THAT SHE WOULD HAVE HER DAUGHTER PICK THEM UP.
Q AND WAS IT AFTER THAT POINT THAT YOU SEALED UP THE GLASSES?
A YES.
Q DID YOU AGREE TO HOLD THEM THERE FOR HER?
A YES. I TOLD HER I WOULD HAVE THEM BEHIND THE BAR IN OUR LOST AND FOUND AREA.
Q WHERE DID YOU PUT THE GLASSES INSIDE THE ENVELOPE THAT YOU SEALED UP?
A I PUT THEM BEHIND THE BAR.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE HERE A ZIP-LOCK BAG IN WHICH THERE IS AN ENVELOPE. I CAN SEE GLASSES INSIDE THE ENVELOPE.
I WOULD ASK THAT THIS ENVELOPE AND ITS CONTENTS BE MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 36.
THE COURT: PEOPLE'S 36.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, WE WOULD STIPULATE THAT THIS WITNESS WILL TESTIFY THIS ENVELOPE AND ITS CONTENTS AS THE GLASSES THAT SHE RECOVERED THAT NIGHT AND THE ENVELOPE --
MS. CLARK: I WONDER IF WE COULD DO THIS AT SIDE BAR, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: HOLD ON JUST A SECOND.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: JUST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR, WE DID PREVIOUSLY MARK THIS IN OUR DISCUSSIONS AS PEOPLE'S 32.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. THEN PEOPLE'S 32.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: MAY WE APPROACH?
THE COURT: YES, WITH THE REPORTER.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: THEY LEFT IT OVER THERE SO THE JURORS COULD SEE IT.
MS. CLARK: IN THE FUTURE, WHEN COUNSEL WANTS TO STIPULATE TO SOMETHING, I WOULD LIKE TO BE APPRISED OF THAT AHEAD OF TIME INSTEAD OF IN OPEN COURT.
THE PEOPLE REFUSE THE STIPULATION. OBVIOUSLY IT IS AN IMPORTANT PIECE OF EVIDENCE THAT THE JURY SHOULD SEE AND IT IS NOT SOMETHING THAT THE PEOPLE SHOULD EITHER BE -- ARE REQUIRED TO STIPULATE TO BY LAW AND IT IS SOMETHING THAT I THINK NEEDS TO BE SHOWN SO THAT THE WITNESS' TESTIMONY IS CORROBORATED, THE CRIME SCENE IS --
THE COURT: I AGREE WITH YOU AT THIS POINT THAT WE NEED TO, YOU KNOW, SET THE FOUNDATION FOR THIS. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THAT. WHETHER OR NOT THIS ACTUALLY GOES BACK TO THE JURY IN ITS PRESENT FORM IS A DIFFERENT ISSUE.
MR. SHAPIRO: ALSO, YOUR HONOR, MAY I --
THE COURT: SURE.
MR. SHAPIRO: THE ENVELOPE IS NOT THE WAY SHE SAW IT. SHE JUST SAW A PLAIN ENVELOPE.
THE COURT: UH-HUH.
MR. SHAPIRO: I THINK THE STIPULATION IS A PROPER ONE TO MOVE THESE PROCEEDINGS ALONG. SHE CAN'T IDENTIFY THAT ENVELOPE NOW OTHER THAN THAT IS HER WRITING ON IT, WHICH WE HAVE AGREED TO STIPULATE TO, SO THERE IS NO EVIDENCE --
THE COURT: I THINK THE PEOPLE ARE ENTITLED TO TRY THEIR CASE AS THEY SEE FIT.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: BUT THERE IS A PROBLEM THAT WE WILL TAKE UP LATER WHEN IT GOES TO THE JURY.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU, JUDGE.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
MR. SHAPIRO: HOW ABOUT SHOWING THIS TO THIS WITNESS? CAN WE JUST HAVE HER SHOW THE FRONT SIDE OF THE ENVELOPE?
MR. COCHRAN: THE BLOOD WASN'T ON THERE.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE TO SHOW THE GLASSES INSIDE. HOW AM I GOING TO DO THAT?
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WE WILL JUST IDENTIFY FOR THIS PURPOSE AND AT A DISTANCE YOU CAN REALLY TELL. THE INTERESTING NATURE OF THE ENVELOPE AS FAR AS THE BLOOD IS CONCERNED BECOMES APPARENT WHEN YOU SEE THE IT WITHIN ABOUT 18 INCHES.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU, JUDGE.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL. YOU MAY PROCEED. PEOPLE'S 32.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR. MAY I APPROACH?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
Q BY MS. CLARK: MISS CRAWFORD, SHOWING WHAT YOU HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 32, DO YOU RECOGNIZE THE HANDWRITING ON THE FRONT OF THIS ENVELOPE?
A YEAH, THAT IS MY HANDWRITING.
Q IS THIS HANDWRITING THAT YOU PUT ON THIS ENVELOPE ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994?
A YES.
Q AND IT SAYS, "PRESCRIPTION GLASSES, NICOLE SIMPSON WILL PICK UP MONDAY"?
A YES.
Q NOW, LOOKING INSIDE THE ENVELOPE, CAN YOU SEE THE GLASSES THAT ARE INSIDE?
A YES.
Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THOSE?
A YES.
Q HOW DO YOU RECOGNIZE THEM?
A WELL, THEY LOOK LIKE THE GLASSES I PICKED UP OFF THE STREET.
Q AND THIS IS THE ENVELOPE THAT YOU PLACED BEHIND THE BAR?
A YES.
Q NOW, AFTER YOU HAD THAT CONVERSATION WITH MRS. BROWN AND YOU PLACED THE ENVELOPE BEHIND YOU AT THE BAR, DID YOU GET ANOTHER PHONE CALL?
A YES.
Q ABOUT HOW LONG AFTER THE FIRST PHONE CALL DID YOU GET THE SECOND PHONE CALL?
A ABOUT FIVE MINUTES.
Q OKAY. WOULD YOU ESTIMATE THEN ABOUT 9:45?
A YES.
Q DID YOU RECOGNIZE THE PERSON WHO CALLED YOU?
A UMM, YES, I DID.
Q WHO WAS THAT?
A IT WAS NICOLE.
Q NICOLE?
A YES.
Q AND WHERE WERE YOU IN THE RESTAURANT WHEN YOU GOT THAT CALL?
A I WAS STANDING NEAR THE BAR. BOTH OF OUR PHONES ARE ON THE BAR, SO I WAS AT EITHER ONE END OR THE OTHER.
Q AND YOU HAD A CONVERSATION WITH NICOLE?
A YES.
Q WAS IT CONCERNING THE GLASSES?
A YES.
Q DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING WITH RESPECT TO THOSE GLASSES?
A UMM, SHE TOLD ME -- WELL, CAN YOU REPEAT THAT?
Q YEAH. DID SHE ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING WITH THOSE GLASSES?
A UMM, NO. SHE ASKED IF SHE COULD SPEAK TO RON, BUT SHE DIDN'T TELL ME WHAT TO DO WITH THE GLASSES.
Q OKAY. RON GOLDMAN?
A YES.
Q AND DID YOU THEN SPEAK TO RON GOLDMAN?
A YES.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO?
A I WENT OVER TO WHERE HE WAS SITTING AND I TOLD HIM THAT HE HAD A PHONE CALL.
Q DID HE SPEAK ON THE PHONE?
A HE DID, YES.
Q COULD YOU HEAR WHAT HE WAS SAYING?
A NO. I DIDN'T HEAR EXACTLY WHAT HE WAS SAYING, NO.
Q BUT YOU COULD TELL HE WAS SPEAKING?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN HE CAME OVER TO TAKE THE PHONE, WAS HE STILL WEARING HIS WAITER'S UNIFORM?
A NO, HE WASN'T.
Q HOW DID HE LOOK DIFFERENT?
A HE HAD TAKEN HIS VEST AND HIS TIE OFF.
Q OTHER THAN THAT, WHAT WAS HE WEARING?
A HE WAS WEARING BLACK PANTS AND WHITE UP ON TOP.
Q WHITE DRESS SHIRT?
A YEAH.
Q SO HE WAS STILL WEARING THAT MUCH OF THE UNIFORM?
A YES.
Q NOW, AFTER HE SPOKE FOR A WHILE ON THE PHONE, WHAT DID HE DO?
A HE HUNG AROUND FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES AND THEN HE ASKED ME TO GIVE HIM THE GLASSES AND I DID.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30, A WHITE DRESS SHIRT, WHAT APPEARS TO BE A BLACK PAIR OF DRESS PANTS, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE ARE SHOWING YOU HERE?
A YES.
Q WHAT IS IT?
A IT IS RON'S SHIRT AND PANTS.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN MS. CLARK AND THE WITNESS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AFTER HE HUNG UP THE PHONE, DID RON SAY SOMETHING TO YOU?
A YEAH. HE TOLD ME HE WAS GOING TO DROP THE GLASSES OFF AT NICOLE'S.
Q DID HE TELL YOU HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO SOMEWHERE?
A HE WAS ON HIS WAY TO MEET A COUPLE OF GUYS FROM WORK AT BAJA CANTINA.
Q DO YOU KNOW WHERE BAJA CANTINA IS?
A YEAH.
Q WHERE IS IT?
A IT IS IN MARINA DEL REY.
Q SO DID YOU GIVE HIM THE ENVELOPE WITH THE GLASSES?
A YES.
Q DID YOU SEE HIM LEAVE THE RESTAURANT AT SOME POINT?
A YES, I DID.
Q DO YOU RECALL ABOUT WHAT TIME IT WAS?
A HE LEFT AT ABOUT TEN MINUTES TO 10:00.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHAT EXIT HE LEFT THROUGH?
A HE LEFT THROUGH THE SIDE EXIT THAT GOES OUT ONTO GORHAM.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHO WAS TENDING BAR THAT NIGHT?
A STUART WAS TENDING BAR.
Q STUART TANNER?
A YES.
Q AND YOU RECALL SEEING RON ACTUALLY LEAVE THE RESTAURANT AT TEN MINUTES OF 10:00?
A YEAH, I SAW HIM WALK OUT THE DOOR.
Q AND WAS THAT THE LAST TIME YOU SAW HIM?
A YES.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY
AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS A TIME CARD I WOULD ASK TO BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 36.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 36, TIME CARD.
(PEO'S 36 FOR ID = TIME CARD)
Q BY MS. CLARK: YOU CAN SEE IT ON YOUR MONITOR, OKAY?
DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS BEING SHOWN THERE?
A YES, IT IS A TIME CARD.
Q ALL RIGHT. AND IS THAT RON GOLDMAN'S TIME CARD?
A YES.
Q AND FOR THE WEEK ENDING JUNE THE 12TH?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU SEE SUNDAY, JUNE THE 12TH, INDICATED ON THAT CARD?
A YES.
Q AND IT SHOWS THAT HE CAME IN WHAT TIME?
A HE CAME IN AT 4:30.
Q AND THAT HE CLOCKED OUT AT WHAT TIME?
A HE CLOCKED OUT AT 9:33.
Q THEN HE WAS HANGING AROUND THE RESTAURANT FOR AWHILE BEFORE HE ACTUALLY LEFT WHEN YOU SAW HIM LEAVE AT ABOUT 9:50?
A YES.
Q I'M JUST GOING TO SHOW YOU ONE MORE PICTURE.
A OKAY.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: AT THIS MOMENT?
MR. COCHRAN: AS SOON AS THEY FINISH THIS.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. MISS CRAWFORD, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT IS BEING DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A IT IS AN ENVELOPE.
Q OKAY. DOES IT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME ENVELOPE THAT YOU PLACED THE GLASSES OF MRS. BROWN IN ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH AND THAT YOU GAVE TO RON GOLDMAN TO TAKE TO NICOLE?
A IT LOOKS LIKE IT, YES.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YES. WITH THE COURT REPORTER, PLEASE.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, CAN THE WITNESS STEP DOWN WHILE WE ARE AT SIDE BAR?
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WE ARE AT THE SIDE BAR.
MR. COCHRAN: I'M GOING TO OBJECT TO
MISS CLARK --
THE COURT: MADE A GESTURE TO THE WITNESS.
MR. COCHRAN: -- GOING LIKE THIS AND THAT IS NOT PROFESSIONAL AND THIS IS NOT ANYBODY'S LIVING ROOM, AND MARCIA IS AN EXCELLENT LAWYER AND WE DON'T NEED THAT. THAT IS INAPPROPRIATE AND THE JURORS SEE IT ALSO.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: I SAID TO THE WITNESS ONE -- JUST ONE MORE QUESTION BECAUSE IT LOOKED LIKE SHE WAS GOING TO START CRYING AGAIN. I JUST WANTED TO COMPLETE THE DIRECT SO THAT SHE COULD COMPOSE HERSELF FOR CROSS. IT WAS JUST TO REASSURE HER THAT WE WERE ALMOST DONE.
THE COURT: I UNDERSTAND THAT. I HEARD WHAT YOU SAID. I SAW YOU DO IT. IT WOULD I THINK BE THE BETTER PRACTICE OR YOU CAN SAY THOSE THINGS TO THE WITNESSES, AND WE WERE WAITING FOR SOMETHING TO BE PRINTED OUT AS I RECALL, BUT IF YOU WOULD JUST AUDIBLY, SO THERE ARE NO SECRETS SO IT IS ON THE RECORD.
MS. CLARK: AND DID REPEAT IT LOUD ENOUGH SO THAT EVERYONE COULD HEAR.
MR. COCHRAN: WE COULD NOT HEAR IT. YOU WERE MOUTHING THE WORDS. SHE COULD APPROACH THE WITNESS AND DO IT.
ANOTHER THING HAS TO DO WITH THIS PHOTOGRAPH. AFTER ALL, WE HAVE BEEN TRYING CASES FOR A VERY LONG TIME, AND FIRST OF ALL, HOW MANY TIMES DOES SHE HAVE TO SHOW THE PANTS, THE BLACK PANTS AND WHITE SHIRT? TO EVERY WITNESS UNTIL THEY START CRYING? OR TO END WITH THAT PHOTOGRAPH, THAT PHOTOGRAPH IS NOT THE WAY -- THAT LAST PHOTOGRAPH, JUDGE, IS RIGHT OVER THE EDGE AGAIN WHERE THE PROSECUTION HAS GONE OVER THE EDGE AGAIN.
THAT ENVELOPE, SHE HAS SEEN THE ENVELOPE. THIS LADY WAS NEVER AT THE CRIME SCENE AND THAT IS PREPOSTEROUS AND I THINK THAT IS IMPROPER. SHE HAS ALL THESE WITNESSES TO DO THAT.
MS. CLARK: I NEED TO LINK THE ENVELOPE SHE REMEMBERS WRITING ON WITH THE CRIME SCENE ENVELOPE. I NEED TO DO IT WITH HER AND I NEED TO DO IT WITH THE OFFICERS AND THERE IS NOTHING INAPPROPRIATE.
AS A MATTER OF FACT, THAT IS EXACTLY WHAT SHE DID AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, BECAUSE WE DIDN'T WANT TO BRING IN THE ENVELOPE. AT THE TIME IT WAS UNDERGOING TESTING. IT WASN'T AS GOOD AS BRINGING IN THE ENVELOPE BECAUSE IT COULDN'T SHOW HER WRITING BECAUSE ALL OF THE PHOTOGRAPHS SHOW ON THE BACK, BUT I HAVE TO LINK IT UP.
THE COURT: AT THIS POINT ALL SHE CAN SAY IS
IT LOOKS LIKE THE ENVELOPE.
MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS A WHOLE POINT. WE DON'T CARE WHAT HAPPENED AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING. THERE WAS NO JURY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING AND THAT IS DIFFERENT.
WE HAVE TO PROTECT THIS JURY AND PROTECT OUR CLIENT'S RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL, JUDGE, AND I THINK YOU SHOULD ADMONISH THE JURY. SHE IS OVER THERE WHISPERING, MOUTHING THINGS. SHE IS WAY OVER THERE. THEY MAY HAVE HEARD HER. THAT IS IMPROPER.
AND THEY FLASH -- SHE SHOWS THOSE PANTS AND SHIRTS AND WE DON'T HAVE ANY HAY ON OUR COATS AND WE KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON AND WE HAVE TO RESPOND TO THIS KIND OF THING.
IT IS NOT FAIR AND MY CLIENT'S RIGHT TO A FAIR TRIAL IS BEING DIMINISHED BECAUSE OF THAT.
THE COURT: OKAY. I HAVE HEARD ENOUGH. THE OBJECTION IS NOTED.
MISS CLARK, NO MORE PRIVATE CONVERSATIONS WITH THE WITNESS OVER THERE.
THE COURT: OKAY.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, HAVE YOU CONCLUDED YOUR EXAMINATION OF MISS CRAWFORD?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR, I HAVE CONCLUDED DIRECT.
THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO.
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I WONDER, IF WE ARE DONE WITH THE EXHIBIT, IF WE COULD JUST HAVE MISS CLARK RETRIEVE THOSE, SOME PHOTOGRAPHS THAT I AM NOT GOING TO NEED AND THE ENVELOPE THAT I WILL NOT NEED.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. WHY DON'T YOU RETRIEVE THAT, MISS CLARK.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: AND THE ENVELOPE, PLEASE.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH, YOUR HONOR.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SHAPIRO:
Q GOOD AFTERNOON, MISS CRAWFORD.
A HI.
Q I HAVE TO ASK YOU A FEW QUESTIONS AND I WILL NOT ASK YOU ANY QUESTIONS THAT UPSET YOU.
THE DOCUMENTS THAT YOU WERE SHOWN BY MISS CLARK, SPECIFICALLY THE CHECK FOR DINNER --
A YES.
Q -- WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU HAVE SEEN THAT?
A WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME I HAVE SEEN IT?
Q YES.
A I BELIEVE TODAY.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU SEE IT?
A WHERE DID I SEE IT? I SAW IT HERE.
Q AND THE RECEIPT FOR THE PAYMENT OF THE BILL, WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THAT?
A TODAY.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU SEE IT?
A HERE.
Q AND THE TIME CARD, WHEN IS THE FIRST TIME YOU SAW THAT?
A I MAY HAVE SEEN IT EARLIER IN THE WEEK
OF THE WEEK ENDING JUNE 12TH. I ADDED THEM UP ON JUNE 12TH.
Q SO THAT ONE YOU HAD SEEN BEFORE?
A YES.
Q IN ADDING UP THAT TIME CARD FOR MR. GOLDMAN DID YOU NOTICE ANYTHING THAT WAS INCORRECT ON THE TIME CARD?
A WELL, I SEE WHERE I HAD ADDED IT UP IN ONE SECTION AND IT HAD BEEN RE-ADDED AGAIN.
Q DID YOU ALSO SEE THAT ON ONE DATE THERE WAS A TIME THAT THERE WAS A STAMPED IN FOR WORK, BUT NO STAMPING OUT OF WORK?
A I DON'T REMEMBER NOTICING THAT.
Q YOU DON'T REMEMBER NOTICING THAT?
MAY I BORROW THE EXHIBIT FOR A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR? MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS?
THE COURT: YOU MAY. THIS IS PEOPLE'S 36.
Q BY MR. SHAPIRO: WAS THERE AN INDICATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT WEDNESDAY WAS A WORKING DAY?
A WEDNESDAY? WELL, THERE IS -- THERE IS A STAMP IN AND I DON'T KNOW EXACTLY WHETHER OR NOT HE WORKED THAT DAY. MAYBE SOMEONE ACCIDENTALLY PUNCHED IN ON HIS TIME CARD AND REALIZED THAT IT WAS NOT THEIR CARD. THAT IS A POSSIBILITY. MAYBE HE PUNCHED IN AND THEY DIDN'T NEED HIM AND HE JUST LEFT AND HE DIDN'T PUNCH OUT. MAYBE HE WAS JUST THERE FOR A FEW MINUTES. I CAN'T TELL YOU FOR SURE WHAT THAT IS. HE MAY HAVE WORKED AND FORGOTTEN TO PUNCH OUT.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE THAT THE TIME ON THAT TIMES PUNCH MACHINE WERE ACCURATE ON JUNE THE 12TH?
A CAN YOU REPEAT THAT? DO I HAVE PERSONAL KNOWLEDGE OF WHAT?
Q WHEN YOU PUT THAT CARD IN, IT GOES INTO A MACHINE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A UH-HUH, YES.
Q AND THAT MACHINE INDICATES A TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY PERSONAL INFORMATION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THAT MACHINE WAS ACCURATELY RECORDING THE TIME ON JUNE THE 12TH?
A NO.
Q WHEN YOU GOT THE PHONE CALL FROM MRS. JUDITH BROWN, HAD YOU EVER TALKED TO HER ON THE PHONE BEFORE?
A I DON'T BELIEVE I HAD EVER TALKED TO HER ON THE PHONE, NO.
Q AND NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON, HAD YOU EVER TALKED TO HER ON THE PHONE BEFORE?
A I DON'T REMEMBER IF I HAD OR NOT, NO.
Q YOU SAY SHE WAS A REGULAR AT THE RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q HOW OFTEN WOULD SHE COME IN?
A WELL, IN THE COURSE OF A YEAR I HAD SEEN HER ABOUT FOUR TIMES AND I WOULD CONSIDER THAT TO BE REGULAR. I HAD HEARD OF OTHER TIMES SHE HAD BEEN IN ON NIGHTS THAT I HADN'T WORKED.
Q ON THIS PARTICULAR NIGHT WHEN YOU WERE THE MANAGER, DID YOU SEE HER GREET RON GOLDMAN WHEN SHE AND HER PARTY ARRIVED AT THE MEZZALUNA RESTAURANT?
A YES.
Q AND HOW DID SHE GREET HIM?
A UMM, I JUST THINK SHE SAID HELLO AND I'M NOT -- I'M NOT SURE EXACTLY WHAT SHE DID.
Q DID THEY HUG?
A THEY MAY HAVE.
Q DID THEY KISS?
A I DON'T THINK SO, NO.
Q ARE YOU SURE?
A NO, I'M NOT SURE.
Q WHEN YOU WENT TO GET RON GOLDMAN, THAT WAS AT THE REQUEST OF NICOLE?
A YES.
Q AND WHERE WAS RON WHEN YOU WENT TO GET HIM?
A HE WAS SITTING AT THE FIRST TABLE BY THE FRONT DOOR.
Q WHAT WAS HE DOING?
A HE WAS SITTING TALKING TO THE TWO OTHER MANAGERS.
Q WHO ARE THEY?
A JOHN AND RICHARD.
Q DID YOU PREVIOUSLY TESTIFY THAT THEY WERE ALL HAVING DINNER TOGETHER?
A UMM, I DON'T THINK SO. JOHN AND RICHARD WERE HAVING DINNER.
Q YOU INDICATED THEY WERE HAVING DINNER AND MR. GOLDMAN WAS WITH THEM?
A YEAH. I THINK HE -- HE WENT OVER THERE JUST FOR A COUPLE OF MINUTES TO HANG OUT.
Q DID YOU SEE MR. GOLDMAN EAT AT ALL THAT EVENING?
A NO, I DIDN'T.
MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I JUST HAVE ONE MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, I HAVE A TRANSCRIPT OF PREVIOUS TESTIMONY BY KAREN LEE CRAWFORD, CROSS-EXAMINATION BY MYSELF. THAT IS PAGE 12, HOWEVER, AGAIN I HAVE UNDERLINED IT.
I WONDER IF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY WOULD OBJECT TO ME SHOWING THIS OR WOULD LIKE ANOTHER COPY TO BE SHOWN TO THE WITNESS?
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY
AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MR. SHAPIRO: MAY I APPROACH THE WITNESS, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
Q MISS CRAWFORD, WOULD YOU JUST TAKE A MOMENT TO REVIEW YOUR TESTIMONY PREVIOUSLY GIVEN AND I WANT TO DIRECT YOU TO LINE 22 THROUGH LINE 28, PLEASE.
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THE FOLLOWING QUESTIONS BY ME?
A YES. GO AHEAD.
Q LET ME GIVE YOU THE QUESTIONS, OKAY?
MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION. THE WITNESS IS BEING ASKED TO REFRESH HER MEMORY. COUNSEL DOESN'T NEED TO READ THIS INTO THE RECORD. SHE JUST REFRESHED HER MEMORY AND NOW SHE CAN TESTIFY TO WHAT COUNSEL WANTS.
THE COURT: OVERRULED. MR. SHAPIRO.
MR. SHAPIRO: YES.
Q WERE YOU ASKED THE FOLLOWING QUESTION:
"WHEN YOU WENT TO CALL RON GOLDMAN TO THE PHONE, WHERE WAS HE?
"ANSWER: HE WAS SITTING AT TABLE 101 WHICH IS THE VERY FIRST TABLE TO THE LEFT OF THE FRONT ENTRANCE.
"QUESTION: WHO WAS HE WITH, IF ANYONE?
"ANSWER: HE WAS SITTING WITH JOHN AND RICHARD, JOHN DEBELLO, THE MANAGER, AND RICHARD ARBOLINO.
"QUESTION: WHAT WERE THEY DOING?
"ANSWER: THEY WERE HAVING DINNER."
DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THOSE QUESTIONS AND GIVING THOSE ANSWERS?
A YES.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, REDIRECT?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MISS CRAWFORD, IS YOURSELF AND THE WAITERS, ARE THEY ALL PAID BY THE HOUR?
A YES.
Q SO THE HOURS THAT YOU ARE PAID FOR ARE MEASURED BY THE TIME CLOCK?
A YES.
Q THE ONE YOU PUNCH IN AND OUT OF?
A YES.
Q AND SO MINUTES WOULD BE VERY IMPORTANT --
A YES.
Q -- TO BE ACCURATE ON THAT, WOULD THEY NOT?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q SO IS THERE AN EFFORT MADE TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT TIME CLOCK REMAINS ACCURATE FOR THE PURPOSE OF MEASURING WHAT EVERYONE GETS PAID?
A YES.
Q TO THE BEST OF YOUR KNOWLEDGE WAS THAT TIME CLOCK ACCURATE ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH?
A YES.
Q AND WERE YOU ABLE TO SEE IF MR. GOLDMAN WAS EATING ANYTHING THAT NIGHT WHEN YOU SAW HIM SITTING WITH MR. DEBELLO AND THE OTHER GENTLEMAN?
A NO. JOHN AND RICHARD WERE HAVING DINNER, BUT RON WASN'T.
Q DID YOU NOTICE WHETHER RON WAS DRINKING ANYTHING?
A I DON'T REMEMBER.
Q DID YOU KNOW HIM TO DRINK MINERAL WATER AT THE MEZZALUNA FREQUENTLY?
A YES.
Q WAS THAT HIS PRETTY MUCH DRINK OF CHOICE?
A THAT WAS HIS DRINK OF CHOICE.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHAT WAS YOUR UNDERSTANDING OF THE NATURE OF THE RELATIONSHIP BETWEEN RON GOLDMAN AND NICOLE BROWN?
A UMM, MY UNDERSTANDING OF IT WAS THAT IT WAS VERY CASUAL AT MOST.
Q IN OTHER WORDS, DID YOU EVER COME TO THE UNDERSTANDING THAT THEY WERE LOVERS?
A NO.
Q JUST KNEW EACH OTHER?
A YES.
Q DO YOU RECALL WHETHER OR NOT THEY -- DO YOU HAVE ANY PRESENT RECOLLECTION AS TO WHETHER OR NOT THEY HUGGED EACH OTHER WHEN THEY SAW EACH OTHER THAT NIGHT?
A NO.
Q DO YOU HAVE ANY PRESENT RECOLLECTION AS TO WHETHER THEY EXCHANGED A KISS ON THE CHEEK THAT NIGHT?
A NO. I WASN'T PAYING ATTENTION TO THAT.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: OH, ONE MORE THING:
WITH RESPECT TO THIS TIME CARD, DO YOU RECOGNIZE ANY OF THE HANDWRITING AT THE BOTTOM OF THAT CARD?
A YES.
Q AND WHAT IS IT YOU RECOGNIZE?
A I SEE MY HANDWRITING AND SOMEONE ELSE'S HANDWRITING.
Q WHERE IS YOUR HANDWRITING?
A UMM, MY HANDWRITING IS IN THE BOTTOM LEFT AND --
Q BOTTOM LEFT AS WE FACE IT OR THE BOTTOM --
A IT IS AT THE BOTTOM OF THE TIME CARD ON THE LEFT SIDE.
Q WHAT NUMBER IS THAT?
A IT IS -- WELL, IT IS CROSSED OUT AND THEN THERE IS A CORRECTED NUMBER ON THE RIGHT-HAND SIDE ON THE BOTTOM, 26.50.
Q OKAY. IS THAT YOUR HANDWRITING?
A YES.
Q BECAUSE YOU TOTALED THAT CARD?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ANY RECROSS, MR. SHAPIRO?
MR. SHAPIRO: JUST VERY BRIEFLY.
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. SHAPIRO:
Q DID YOU EVER PERSONALLY ASK NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON WHAT HER RELATIONSHIP WAS WITH RONALD GOLDMAN?
A NO.
Q DID YOU EVER ASK RONALD GOLDMAN WHAT HIS RELATIONSHIP WAS WITH NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON?
A NO.
MR. SHAPIRO: THANK YOU. NOTHING FURTHER.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS CRAWFORD, JUST ONE QUICK QUESTION.
YOU TESTIFIED THAT TIA WAS THE SERVER REFLECTED ON THE CREDIT CARD RECEIPT OR ON THE DINNER RECEIPT. WAS THAT TIA GAVIN?
THE WITNESS: YES.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU.
ALL RIGHT. MISS CRAWFORD, I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU FROM FURTHER ATTENDANCE TODAY. I'M GOING TO DIRECT YOU NOT TO DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY, OTHER THAN THE LAWYERS IN THE CASE, UNTIL THE CASE IS OVER.
ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, IF YOU DON'T MIND, BEFORE WE EXCUSE HER, MAY I CONFER WITH COUNSEL BRIEFLY.
THE COURT: CERTAINLY. DON'T GO AWAY.
MISS CLARK.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN DEPUTY DISTRICT ATTORNEY
AND DEFENSE COUNSEL.)
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M JUST GOING TO ASK THAT THE WITNESS BRIEFLY IDENTIFY AND AUTHENTICATE THIS EXHIBIT THAT HAS BEEN SHOWN TO COUNSEL AND ASK THAT IT BE MARKED PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, PEOPLE'S 37.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. PEOPLE'S 37, CHART REFLECTING --
MS. CLARK: THIS IS THE TIME CARD OF RON GOLDMAN.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(PEO'S 37 FOR ID = CHART/TIME CARD OF R.G.)
FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q SHOWING YOU PEOPLE'S 37, MISS CRAWFORD, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT WE ARE SHOWING HERE?
MR. SHAPIRO: YOUR HONOR, WE WILL STIPULATE THAT THIS IS A BLOW-UP OF THE TIME CARD.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. AND IF I MIGHT ASK HER ONE ADDITIONAL QUESTION.
THE COURT: YES.
Q BY MS. CLARK: DO YOU SEE THE INITIALS HERE K.C.?
A YES.
Q THOSE ARE YOURS?
A YES.
Q YOU PUT THOSE ON THERE?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ANY QUESTIONS AS TO THE INITIALS?
MR. SHAPIRO: NO. THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
MISS CRAWFORD MAY BE EXCUSED.
THE COURT: MISS CRAWFORD, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU. THE PEOPLE WOULD LIKE TO RECALL TIA GAVIN BRIEFLY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE APPROACH, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YES.
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. MISS GAVIN, WOULD YOU APPROACH THE WITNESS STAND AGAIN, PLEASE.
THE COURT: MISS GAVIN, WE RELEASED YOU AS A WITNESS, SO I HAVE TO HAVE YOU RESWORN.
TIA GAVIN,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD.
THE WITNESS: YES, I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE BE SEATED ON THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: TIA, T-I-A, GAVIN, G-A-V-I-N.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q SHOWING WHAT YOU HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 33, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT I'M SHOWING YOU?
A IT IS A CHECK FROM MY RESTAURANT.
Q OKAY. AND REMEMBER WE TALKED ABOUT THE NCR OR DID WE TALK TO YOU ABOUT THAT?
A YES.
Q OKAY. AND IS THAT A MACHINE WHERE YOU SAID YOU PUNCHED IN THE ORDER?
A YES.
Q AND IT WOULD TOTAL UP?
A YES.
Q AND DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT PARTICULAR ONE?
A IT LOOKS -- IT LOOKS LIKE IT WOULD BE RIGHT FOR THAT TABLE, FOR THE BROWN'S TABLE. I MEAN, I -- I DON'T REMEMBER EVER HAVING SEEN THE CHECK SINCE THAT EVENING, SO I WOULDN'T REMEMBER EXACTLY, BUT IT CERTAINLY LOOKS VERY APPROPRIATE FOR TEN PEOPLE, AND IT HAS GOT THE BOLOGNESE THAT I MENTIONED BEFORE, SO IT LOOKS RIGHT.
Q SO THAT APPEARS TO BE THE PIECE OF PAPER THAT NCR PRINTS OUT FOR THE NIGHT OF 12TH WHEN YOU SERVED NICOLE BROWN AT HER PARTY?
A YES, AND IT IS THE RIGHT TABLE NUMBER AS WELL, I JUST NOTICED, YES.
Q YOU ARE PRETTY SURE THAT'S THE ONE?
A YEAH.
Q DO YOU SEE YOUR NAME ON IT, TOO?
A YES.
Q INDICATING THAT YOU WERE THE SERVER?
A YES.
Q DOES THAT ACCURATELY INDICATE THE FOOD THAT WAS SERVED TO THAT PARTY?
A IT WOULD, YES.
Q YOU JUST TOLD US THAT THE NUMBER OF THE PEOPLE NUMBERED TEN?
A YES.
Q BUT IT SHOWS THERE THAT THE NUMBER OF GUESTS IS NINE. CAN YOU EXPLAIN TO US WHY?
A OFTEN WHEN WE HAVE -- WHEN WE WAIT ON CHILDREN, SINCE THEY DON'T ORDER FULL ORDERS OF FOOD, WE WILL COUNT TWO LITTLE CHILDREN AS ONE ADULT.
Q OKAY. NOW, HAVE I EVER SHOWN YOU THIS PIECE OF PAPER BEFORE?
A NO.
Q HAVE WE EVER DISCUSSED THIS PIECE OF PAPER BEFORE?
A NO.
Q RIGHT NOW IS THE FIRST TIME?
A YES.
Q BY THE WAY, DO YOU HAPPEN TO KNOW WHETHER OR NOT THE TIME AND DATE STAMP BY THAT NCR MACHINE ON THAT PIECE OF PAPER IS ACCURATE OR NOT?
A IT SAYS, "JUNE 13, '94, 7:04 A.M.," SO IT COULDN'T BE CORRECT. IT SAYS "A.M."
Q AND THE DATE THAT YOU SERVED NICOLE BROWN AND HER PARTY, THE ONLY TIME YOU EVER SERVED THEM, THAT WAS JUNE THE 12TH, WASN'T IT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q SO BOTH THE DATE AND THE TIME ARE WRONG ON THAT?
A YES.
Q NOW, WHEN YOU CLOSE OUT THE BILL, IN OTHER WORDS, WHEN YOU TOTAL IT UP --
A UH-HUH.
Q -- DOES IT STAMP AGAIN?
A YES.
Q CAN YOU TURN IT OVER.
A UH-HUH.
Q DO YOU SEE AT THE TOP OF THAT BILL?
A UH-HUH.
MS. CLARK: I THINK I'M GOING TO PUT IT ON THE MONITOR SO EVERYBODY CAN FOLLOW ALONG WHAT YOU ARE SAYING, IF YOU DON'T MIND.
YOU WILL BE ABLE TO SEE IT ON THE MONITOR RIGHT BY YOU.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: OKAY. DO YOU SEE AT THE TOP OF THAT DOCUMENT WHERE IT SAYS, "JUNE 13, 8:18 A.M."?
A YES.
Q OKAY. AND YOU INDICATED BEFORE THAT IS NOT ACCURATE? YOU DID NOT COMPLETE SERVING THEM DINNER AT 8:18 A.M.?
A NO.
Q OKAY. BUT THAT TIME DATE TO YOU, THAT IS WHEN YOU RANG UP THE TOTAL?
A UP HERE WHERE IT SAYS "CASH" AT THE VERY TOP, I BELIEVE THAT WOULD BE THE TIME THAT THE CASH WAS CASHED OUT, WHICH WOULD BE AFTER IT WOULD BE PAID IF THE TIME WERE CORRECT, BUT WHEN THE TIME PRINTS UP THERE, IF THE TIME WERE CORRECT, IT WOULD BE PRINTING UP THE TIME THAT I WAS CASHING OUT THE BILL WHICH WOULD MEAN THAT THE BILL WAS PAID AND THEY PRESUMABLY LEFT.
Q THEY MAY NOT HAVE LEFT RIGHT AWAY?
A THEY JUST PAID THEIR BILL AND I CLOSED IT OUT.
Q THE FACT THAT YOU HAVE CASH UP THERE, DOES THAT MEAN THAT THEY PAID YOU IN CASH?
A NO. WE CLOSE OUT ALL THE CHECKS TO CASH.
Q I'M SHOWING YOU WHAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S -- I'M GOING TO PUT IT ON THE MONITOR. IT IS EASIER -- PEOPLE'S 34.
DO YOU RECOGNIZE THAT?
A YES, I DO. IT IS A CREDIT CARD RECEIPT FROM OUR RESTAURANT.
Q DO YOU SEE THE AMOUNT OF 179.95?
A YES.
Q THAT WAS THE SAME AMOUNT ON PEOPLE'S 33 THAT YOU JUST SAW?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q SO DOES REFLECT THE METHOD OF ACTUAL PAYMENT FOR THE BILL BY NICOLE BROWN?
A YES, IT WOULD.
Q WHAT WAS THE METHOD OF PAYMENT?
A CREDIT CARD AND AMERICAN EXPRESS.
Q AND THE SIGNATURE APPEARS TO BE THAT OF NICOLE BROWN?
A IT SAYS "NICOLE BROWN," YES.
Q IS IT YOUR HABIT AND CUSTOM TO GIVE THIS RECEIPT TO THE CUSTOMER, HAVE THEM FILL IN THE GRATUITY AND HAVE -- AND TOTAL IT AND THEN SIGN IT?
A YES.
MS. CLARK: PUSH IT DOWN.
Q DO YOU SEE THE TIME STAMP THERE, 7:12 P.M.?
A YES.
Q IS THAT IN FACT WHEN NICOLE AND HER PARTY LEFT OR PAID?
A NO, THEY COULDN'T HAVE. THEY ARRIVED AT 6:45'ISH, SO --
Q SO THIS TIME IS ALSO INACCURATE?
A YES.
Q NOW, YOU EARLIER INDICATED, WITH RESPECT TO YOUR TIME CARD MARKED PREVIOUSLY AS PEOPLE'S 26 -- 36? HER TIME CARD? NO, THAT IS WRONG.
THE CLERK: 28.
MS. CLARK: 28. THANKS, DEIRDRA.
Q YOU INDICATED THAT -- THIS IS YOUR TIME CARD, MA'AM?
A YES.
Q YOU INDICATED EARLIER THAT YOU CLOCKED IN ON SUNDAY, JUNE THE 12TH, AT 5:02 AND CLOCKED OUT AT 9:58?
A UH-HUH.
Q IS THAT TIME CLOCK ACCURATE?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND THOSE TIMES REFLECTED ON YOUR TIME CARD ARE ACCURATE?
A YES, AND UMM -- YEAH. WE CAME IN AT 4:30 -- THE WAITERS WERE STAGGERED. YOU ARE SCHEDULED AT 4:30, 5:00 AND 5:30, SO BESIDES THE FACT THAT THIS IS THE WAY MY MEMORY IS, THAT IS THE WAY WE WERE SCHEDULED.
Q AND SO YOU KNOW THAT IT IS ACCURATE?
A YES, BECAUSE I WAS SCHEDULED TO ARRIVE THEN SO --
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
I WOULD ASK AT THIS TIME, YOUR HONOR, IF I MAY, SUBSTITUTE THIS ORIGINAL TIME CARD FOR THE XEROXED COPY I PREVIOUSLY USED. I HAVE BEEN GIVEN PERMISSION. MEZZALUNA WILL RELEASE THESE FOR A COURT EXHIBIT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: NO OBJECTION.
THE COURT: SO ORDERED. THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
(PEO'S 28 FOR ID = ORIGINAL TIME CARD/SUBSTUTD)
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: ANYTHING FURTHER FROM MISS GAVIN?
MS. CLARK: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. SHAPIRO?
MR. SHAPIRO: NO. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
MS. GAVIN MAY BE EXCUSED.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT. THANK YOU VERY MUCH, MRS. GAVIN.
ALL RIGHT. LET'S TAKE A BRIEF 15-MINUTE COURT REPORTER RECESS. WE WILL RESUME AT 3:30.
(RECESS.)
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
BACK ON THE RECORD.
MISS CLARK, YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO HAVE YOUR WITNESS TAKE ANOTHER SEAT, PLEASE.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
PEOPLE ACCEPT THE JURY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WITH REGARD TO THE NEXT WITNESS, WE WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF, AND IF THAT WITNESS IS PRESENT, I WOULD LIKE TO HAVE THAT WITNESS STEP OUT AND WOULD LIKE TO HAVE AN OFFER AS TO THAT WITNESS.
THE COURT: CAN YOU HAVE YOUR WITNESS STEP OUT, PLEASE.
(THE PROSPECTIVE WITNESS EXITS
THE COURTROOM.)
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, WHO IS YOUR NEXT WITNESS?
MS. CLARK: MY NEXT WITNESS, YOUR HONOR, IS KIM GOLDMAN.
SHE WILL TESTIFY THAT SHE FOUND THE UNIFORM THAT HAS BEEN MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30 IN RON GOLDMAN'S APARTMENT HANGING OVER A DOOR INSIDE HIS APARTMENT ON JUNE THE 15TH WHEN SHE WENT TO COLLECT HIS THINGS.
THE COURT: AND THAT'S THE ITEMS THAT HAVE PREVIOUSLY BEEN MARKED AS -- WHAT WAS IT -- 31?
MS. CLARK: I THOUGHT IT WAS 30.
THE COURT: THE BAG. NO. 30.
MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I BE HEARD?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
MR. COCHRAN: YES.
WITH REGARD TO THIS ITEM, YOUR HONOR, THE COURT WILL RECALL WE APPROACHED THE BENCH BEFORE. IT SEEMS THAT MISS CLARK WOULD LIKE TO SHOW THE CLOTHES TO EVERY WITNESS WHO COMES IN. THIS IS NOT A PARTICULAR MOMENT IN THIS CASE IN THE FINAL ANALYSIS.
WE ARE WILLING TO STIPULATE MISS GOLDMAN -- WILL STIPULATE AS TO WHERE SHE FOUND THE PARTICULAR CLOTHING TO SAVE SOME TIME. EACH WITNESS TO BE SHOWN THE PANTS AND CLOTHES THAT HE WAS NOT WEARING LATER ON THAT EVENING, AND I THINK THAT IT'S A 352 PROBLEM AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME AND I JUST WANTED TO TRY TO SAVE SOME TIME IN THAT REGARD.
IT MIGHT BE MORE PERSUASIVE TO CALL MISS GOLDMAN HAD SHE NOT SEEN FIT TO SHOW THESE CLOTHES TO MISS CRAWFORD AND THEN SHOWED THEM TO ANOTHER PERSON BEFORE THAT. SO IT WILL BE THREE TIMES TODAY WE'VE SEEN A WHITE SHIRT AND SOME BLACK PANTS.
I THINK WE DO REACH A POINT WHERE THERE'S NO CHAIN OF CUSTODY AND NO ARGUMENT ON THIS PARTICULAR POINT. SO WHY THEN WOULD THEY CONTINUE SHOWING THEM? I COULD SPECULATE, BUT I DON'T THINK I NEED TO DO THAT, AND I WOULD ASK THE COURT TO ACCEPT OUR STIPULATION SO WE CAN MOVE ON.
THE COURT: PEOPLE.
MS. CLARK: YES. YES, YOUR HONOR.
WHAT MR. COCHRAN WANTS TO DO IS STIPULATE AWAY ANYTHING THAT MIGHT PERSONALIZE THE CASE AND MAKE AN INDICATION THAT THERE IS A REAL PERSON, HUMAN BEING ASSOCIATED WITH THE NAME OF RON GOLDMAN.
THE COURT: I'M NOT CONCERNED WITH THAT ASPECT SO MUCH.
MISS CLARK, WHAT IS THE PROBATIVE VALUE OF THIS PROFFER?
MS. CLARK: FIRST OF ALL, LET ME INDICATE TO THE COURT, I AM NOT GOING TO TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG. THE WITNESS BROUGHT THE BAG IN. SHE CAN TELL US WHAT THE CONTENTS ARE AND WHERE SHE FOUND THEM.
BUT THE OFFER OF PROOF IS TO INDICATE THAT HE DID GO HOME AND CHANGE CLOTHES, THAT THESE CLOTHES WERE FOUND OUT LOOSE, THAT HE CHANGED IN A HURRY AND THEY WERE FOUND HANGING OFF A DOOR BECAUSE HE WAS FOUND IN OTHER CLOTHING AT THE CRIME SCENE.
THE COURT: IS THAT RELEVANT TO SOME TIMING ISSUE?
MS. CLARK: YES.
THE COURT: HOW SO?
MS. CLARK: BECAUSE HE LEFT THE RESTAURANT AT TEN OF 10:00 AND IT IS THE PEOPLE'S CONTENTION THAT THE MURDERS OCCURRED ROUGHLY AROUND 10:15, 10:20.
IT WILL INDICATE THAT THERE WAS NOT A LARGE AMOUNT OF TIME SPENT IN HIS APARTMENT BEFORE HE DEPARTED FOR BUNDY. SO IT GOES TO THE AMOUNT OF TIME AND THE MANNER IN WHICH THE CLOTHING WAS FOUND, CLOTHING FOUND IN DISARRAY AS OPPOSED TO NEATLY PLACED IN THE HAMPER.
THIS KIND OF THING WOULD INDICATE --
THE COURT: NEATLY PLACED IN A HAMPER?
MS. CLARK: WELL, YOU KNOW, PUT AWAY. THE CLOTHING WAS LEFT DRAPED OVER A DOOR, WHICH INDICATES THAT IT WAS DONE HURRIEDLY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THAT IS THE RANKEST FORM OF SPECULATION. IF THEY HAD DONE THEIR JOB INVESTIGATING THIS CASE, THEY WOULD HAVE PERHAPS DETERMINED WHETHER OR NOT MR. GOLDMAN HAD TAKEN TIME TO TAKE A SHOWER OR WHATEVER. THEY CAN'T SPECULATE AND TELL WHETHER THAT HAPPENED.
WE KNOW THAT HE CHANGED CLOTHES AND THAT'S THE RELEVANT THING. IT'S ONLY NOW WE FIND OUT THAT IT'S NOT GOING TO BE TAKEN OUT OF THE BAG. IT WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER IF SHE HADN'T TAKEN IT OUT OF THE BAG THOSE OTHER TWO TIMES. SHE WOULD HAVE SOUNDER GROUND TO STAND ON.
SO THE PROFFER IS -- ALL I AM SAYING IS, WE'RE WILLING TO STIPULATE AS TO WHERE THEY WERE FOUND AND TO MOVE ON. EVERYTHING ELSE IS SPECULATIVE.
AND NOW WE FIND THE CHANGE -- THE TIME OF DEATH IS STARTING TO MOVE BACKWARDS. WHEN THEY HAD THE OPENING STATEMENT, IT WAS 10:15. NOW IT'S 10:15 OR 10:20. WHEN WE FINISH, IT'S GOING TO BE 11:00 O'CLOCK. AND THAT'S WHERE WE ARE GOING.
AND SO IT SEEMS TO ME THIS IS ALL SPECULATION. WE SHOULD TRY THIS CASE BASED UPON THE EVIDENCE WITHOUT THE PROSECUTION WHINING AND MOANING AND LET'S JUST GET IT OVER WITH WITHOUT TAKING THINGS OUT OF BAGS WITH EVERY WITNESS. LET'S JUST TRY THIS CASE AND STOP, YOU KNOW, USING -- ENGAGING IN TRICKS AND LEGUME.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, I'M REALLY INSULTED BY THIS IMPLICATION --
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MR. COCHRAN: WE'RE NOT WHINING --
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, PLEASE. MISS CLARK, PLEASE, PLEASE. THANK YOU.
MAYBE THAT OBJECTION WAS BETTER SUITED TO THE LAST TWO WITNESSES RATHER THAN THIS WITNESS. BUT IF THIS IS THE WITNESS --
MR. COCHRAN: I DID OBJECT.
THE COURT: -- IF THIS IS THE WITNESS WHO FOUND IT AND THE MANNER IN WHICH YOU FOUND IT AND TIMING IS AN ISSUE, IT IS RELEVANT, IT DOES HAVE PROBATIVE VALUE.
BUT I TAKE IT THIS IS VERY SHORT.
MS. CLARK: VERY SHORT.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, SHE'S NOT GOING TO TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG IS THE REPRESENTATION, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: THAT'S THE REPRESENTATION I HAVE.
LET'S PROCEED. OBJECTION OVERRULED.
MS. CLARK: LET ME INDICATE FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, IF I DIDN'T TAKE THE CLOTHING OUT OF THE BAG FOR THE OTHER WITNESSES TO SEE, THEY COULDN'T HAVE TESTIFIED AS TO WHETHER HE WORE THOSE CLOTHES THAT NIGHT.
THE COURT: WELL, ALL THEY COULD SAY IS, HE WORE SOMETHING LIKE THAT, BLACK PANTS AND A WHITE SHIRT.
MS. CLARK: BUT --
THE COURT: THIS IS MORE INTERESTING NOW.
ALL RIGHT.
LET'S HAVE THE WITNESS, DEPUTY BROWNING, AND LET'S HAVE THE JURY, DEPUTY MAGNERA.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: AND WHO IS YOUR WITNESS AFTER THIS?
MS. CLARK: PABLO FENJVES.
MAY HE BE ALLOWED TO REMAIN? I DON'T THINK THERE'S ANY --
MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NO OBJECTION.
GOOD AFTERNOON.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, IN THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: THANK YOU, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN. PLEASE BE SEATED.
ALL RIGHT.
PEOPLE MAY CALL THEIR NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL MISS KIM GOLDMAN.
KIMBERLY GOLDMAN,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: PLEASE RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
THE WITNESS: YES, I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND AND STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: KIMBERLY GOLDMAN, K-I-M-B-E-R-L-Y G-O-L-D-M-A-N.
THE CLERK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MISS GOLDMAN, ARE YOU THE SISTER OF RON GOLDMAN?
A YES, I AM.
Q DID YOU VISIT HIS APARTMENT ON GORHAM SHORTLY AFTER JUNE THE 12TH?
A YES, I DID.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHEN?
A UH, THE FIRST TIME WAS ON I BELIEVE WEDNESDAY, JANUARY 15TH, THE DAY BEFORE HIS FUNERAL.
Q JUNE 15TH?
A JUNE 15TH.
Q 1994?
A CORRECT.
Q AND WHY DID YOU GO?
A I NEEDED TO GET A SUIT FOR HIS FUNERAL.
Q DID YOU RECOVER SOME CLOTHING THAT YOU BROUGHT TO COURT TODAY?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND I'M SHOWING YOU THE BAG WHICH WE HAVE PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 30, THE WHITE SHIRT AND THE BLACK PANTS.
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q DO YOU RECOGNIZE THOSE?
A YES, I DO.
Q CAN YOU TELL US WHERE YOU FOUND THEM?
A THEY WERE DRAPED OVER HIS BEDROOM DOOR, THE SHIRT AND THE PANTS.
Q WAS DRAPED OVER --
A HE OBVIOUSLY HAD TAKEN THEM OFF AND JUST SWUNG THEM OVER THE DOOR.
Q NOT ON HANGERS?
A NO. MY FATHER AND I PUT THEM ON THE HANGERS.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY OTHER WHITE DRESS SHIRT OR BLACK PANTS LIKE THAT IN THE APARTMENT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q ONLY THOSE?
A ONLY THOSE.
Q THANK YOU.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: JUST A SECOND, YOUR HONOR.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
MR. COCHRAN: NO QUESTIONS OF THIS WITNESS, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: MISS GOLDMAN, THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
THE WITNESS: YOU ARE WELCOME.
THE COURT: YOU ARE EXCUSED.
NEXT WITNESS.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE CALL MR. PABLO FENJVES.
PABLO FENJVES,
CALLED AS A WITNESS BY THE PEOPLE, WAS SWORN AND TESTIFIED AS FOLLOWS:
THE CLERK: RAISE YOUR RIGHT HAND, PLEASE.
DO YOU SOLEMNLY SWEAR THAT THE TESTIMONY YOU MAY GIVE IN THE CAUSE NOW PENDING BEFORE THIS COURT, SHALL BE THE TRUTH, THE WHOLE TRUTH AND NOTHING BUT THE TRUTH, SO HELP YOU GOD?
THE WITNESS: I DO.
THE CLERK: PLEASE HAVE A SEAT IN THE WITNESS STAND.
STATE AND SPELL YOUR FIRST AND LAST NAMES FOR THE RECORD.
THE WITNESS: MY NAME IS PABLO FENJVES. THAT'S P-A-B-L-O F-E-N-J-V-E-S.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. FENJVES, IF YOU WOULD -- I'M SORRY. THERE IT GOES.
THANK YOU.
MS. CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
DIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. FENJVES, DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION TO THE DATE OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994, AS OF THAT DATE, CAN YOU TELL US APPROXIMATELY WHERE YOU LIVED?
A I LIVED IN THE 800 BLOCK OF SOUTH GRETA GREEN.
Q WHERE IS THAT IN RELATIONSHIP TO 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A WE SHARE A COMMON BACK ALLEY AND I'M ABOUT 60 OR 70 YARDS NORTH.
Q LET ME GET YOU TO SPEAK INTO THE MICROPHONE.
A THANK YOU.
WE SHARE A COMMON BACK ALLEY AND I'M ABOUT 60 OR 70 YARDS NORTH OF THE CONDO OF NICOLE SIMPSON BROWN.
Q CAN YOU LOOK AT YOUR MONITOR, SIR?
THANK YOU.
CAN YOU INDICATE TO US ON THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHERE YOUR HOUSE WOULD BE?
A IT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY WHERE THE POLICE PATROL CAR IS PARKED JUST TO THE LEFT OF THAT (INDICATING).
Q JUST TO THE LEFT AS YOU FACE IT?
A RIGHT. IS TO OUR LEFT.
Q AND THEN WOULD 875 SOUTH BUNDY BE THIS AREA HERE THAT I'M CIRCLING, IF YOU CAN SEE (INDICATING)?
A UH, YES.
IT APPEARS TO ME THAT THERE'S A VEHICLE PARKED -- THERE'S A VEHICLE PARKED IN THE DRIVE OF 875.
Q OKAY. THANK YOU.
THE COURT: AND WHICH EXHIBIT IS THIS, MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: AND THIS IS -- SHOULD WE MARK THIS PHOTOGRAPH AS PEOPLE'S NEXT IN ORDER, PEOPLE'S 38? 38?
THE CLERK: 38.
MS. CLARK: PEOPLE'S 38.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
PEOPLE'S 38.
(PEO'S 38 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, WHAT PORTION OF YOUR APARTMENT FACES THAT ALLEY?
A IT'S A THREE-STORY BUILDING AND THE TOP FLOOR IS THE MASTER BEDROOM WHICH FACES THE ALLEY, THEN THERE'S A KITCHEN, AND BELOW THAT, I HAVE MY OFFICE, AND THAT'S PRETTY MUCH SEALED OFF AND YOU CAN'T SEE OUT INTO THE ALLEY.
Q IF YOU LOOK OUT YOUR MASTER BEDROOM, ARE YOU ABLE TO SEE THE BACK OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A I'M ABLE TO SEE THE -- WHAT SEEMS TO BE A PORCH AREA AND A ROW OF WINDOWS ALONG THE TOP FLOOR, BUT THAT'S ABOUT ALL I CAN SEE.
Q I AM SORRY. COULD YOU REPEAT YOUR LAST ANSWER, SIR?
A I CAN SEE A SORT OF BALCONY AREA WITH A ROW OF WINDOWS ACROSS WHAT SEEMS TO BE THE TOP FLOOR OR STAIRWELL LEADING TO THE TOP FLOOR.
Q SO YOUR VIEW IS LIMITED?
A YES, IT IS.
Q CAN I GET YOU TO KEEP YOUR VOICE UP?
A YES, IT IS.
Q SHOWING YOU THE MAP OF THE BUNDY AREA THAT WAS PREVIOUSLY MARKED AS PEOPLE'S 26, CAN YOU POINT OUT THE PLACE WHERE YOUR HOME IS SHOWN?
A IF THIS IS THE ALLEY HERE, THIS WOULD BE MY HOME RIGHT HERE (INDICATING).
THE COURT: CAN EVERYBODY HEAR THAT ANSWER, THE JURY?
Q BY MS. CLARK: WILL YOU SAY THAT AGAIN?
A THIS IS -- THIS BEING THE ALLEY HERE, THIS IS MY HOME OVER HERE (INDICATING).
Q AND CAN YOU SHOW US WHERE 875 SOUTH BUNDY WOULD BE?
A I IMAGINE THIS WOULD BE 875 SOUTH BUNDY (INDICATING).
Q THAT RED SQUARE?
A RIGHT.
Q THANK YOU, SIR.
A THANKS.
Q DID YOU KNOW NICOLE BROWN, SIR?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q HAD YOU SEEN HER BEFORE?
A JUST IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. WE HAD A SIMILAR JOGGING ROUTE AND I HAD SEEN HER IN HER CAR PULLING INTO THE ALLEY ONCE OR TWICE. THAT WAS ABOUT IT.
Q DID YOU HAPPEN TO -- DID YOU KNOW WHERE SHE LIVED BACK IN JUNE OF 1994?
A NO, I DIDN'T KNOW WHERE SHE LIVED AND I DIDN'T KNOW WHO SHE WAS.
Q ON JUNE THE 12TH OF 1994, SIR, IN THE EVENING, WHERE WERE YOU?
A AT 10:00 O'CLOCK THAT EVENING, I WAS WATCHING THE NEWS IN THE MASTER BEDROOM ON THE THIRD FLOOR WITH MY WIFE.
Q THAT'S THE MASTER BEDROOM THAT --
A FACES THE --
Q -- FACES THE ALLEY THAT YOU SHARE WITH 875 SOUTH BUNDY?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q YOU WERE WATCHING THE 10:00 O'CLOCK NEWS WITH YOUR WIFE?
A YES.
Q AND FOR HOW LONG DID YOU WATCH THE NEWS?
A WELL, ABOUT 15 OR 20 MINUTES INTO IT, I BECAME AWARE OF A BARKING SOUND AND THEN I PROBABLY STOPPED WATCHING THE NEWS SHORTLY THEREAFTER.
Q SO IT WAS APPROXIMATELY 15 MINUTES AFTER THE NEWS BEGAN THAT YOU STARTED TO HEAR A DOG BARKING?
A YES.
MR. COCHRAN: WELL, YOUR HONOR, THAT MISSTATES WHAT HE JUST SAID, 15 TO 20 MINUTES.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK?
Q BY MS. CLARK: TELL US --
A 15, 20 MINUTES INTO IT, I HEARD A VERY DISTINCTIVE BARKING COMING FROM SOMEWHERE TO THE SOUTH OF WHERE I LIVE AND I WAS AWARE OF IT FOR MAYBE FIVE, SIX, SEVEN MINUTES; AND AT THAT POINT, I STOPPED WATCHING THE NEWS AND I LEFT THE MASTER BEDROOM.
Q WAS THERE SOMETHING UNUSUAL ABOUT THAT DOG BARKING THAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION TO IT?
A IT WAS A -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS FAIRLY PERSISTENT, IT WAS AT A SIGNIFICANT PITCH, AND AS YOU MAY RECALL, I DESCRIBED IT AT THE TIME AS A PLAINTIVE WAIL. SOUNDED LIKE A, YOU KNOW, VERY UNHAPPY ANIMAL.
Q I AM SORRY. I CAN'T HEAR YOU, SIR.
A IT SOUNDED LIKE A VERY UNHAPPY ANIMAL.
Q AND THAT'S WHAT DREW YOUR ATTENTION?
A YES, IT DID.
Q HAD YOU EVER HEARD DOGS BARKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD BEFORE?
A YEAH, THERE'S PLENTY OF DOGS BARKING IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THIS WAS, AS I SAID, PERSISTENT AND UNUSUAL AND UNHAPPY.
Q SO DID YOU STAY AND LISTEN TO THE BARKING FOR A WHILE BEFORE YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS?
A UH, NO. I DON'T RECALL WHETHER I WENT AND LOOKED -- I BELIEVE I MAY HAVE GOTTEN UP AND LOOKED THROUGH THE SHUTTERS, AND THEN I JUST -- I WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO MY OFFICE.
Q ABOUT WHAT TIME WAS IT WHEN YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO YOUR OFFICE?
A I'D SAY AROUND 10:20.
Q AND BY THAT TIME, YOU HAD HEARD THE DOG BARKING FOR HOW LONG?
A AS I SAID, YOU KNOW, IT COULD HAVE BEEN FIVE MINUTES, IT COULD HAVE BEEN SEVEN, EIGHT MINUTES.
Q WHEN YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO YOUR OFFICE, WAS THE DOG STILL BARKING?
A I DON'T RECALL. AT THAT POINT, I WAS GOING DOWN THE INNER STAIRWELL AND I WASN'T AWARE OF IT. AND WHEN I EVENTUALLY GOT TO MY OFFICE -- MY OFFICE IS PRETTY SOUNDPROOF AND I STARTED WORKING. I WAS FOCUSED ON WHAT I WAS DOING. SO WHETHER THE DOG WAS BARKING OR NOT, I CAN'T TELL YOU.
Q AT THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST HEARD THE DOG BARKING, COULD YOU TELL FROM WHAT DIRECTION IT SEEMED TO BE COMING?
A YES. IT SEEMED TO BE COMING FROM THE -- BASICALLY THE AREA, SOUTH CORNER OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY.
Q FROM THIS AREA (INDICATING)?
A UH, YES. FROM THAT AREA.
MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MOMENT. I OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION. THIS PICTURE IS NOT MARKED OR ANYTHING IN THIS AREA.
THE COURT: YOUR OBJECTION IS FOUNDATION.
MR. COCHRAN: NO FOUNDATION.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
SUSTAINED.
Q BY MS. CLARK: SORRY.
SIR, DO YOU RECOGNIZE WHAT'S DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH?
A YES, I DO.
Q WHAT IS THAT?
A THAT IS NICOLE'S HOUSE.
Q FROM THE REAR VIEW?
A YES. FROM THE ALLEY VIEW.
Q AND IS THAT WHERE THE BARKING SEEMED TO BE COMING FROM, THIS AREA?
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THAT AS LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE. THE WITNESS SAID DOROTHY AND BUNDY IT CAME FROM.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED.
REPHRASE THE QUESTION.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHERE DID THE BARKING SEEM TO BE COMING FROM?
A IT SEEMED TO BE COMING FROM THE GENERAL AREA OF DOROTHY AND BUNDY AND THIS PARTICULAR UNIT WAS VERY MUCH IN THE LINE OF MY VIEW.
Q SO THAT WHEN YOU WENT OUT -- WELL, STRIKE THAT.
YOU STAYED DOWN IN YOUR OFFICE FOR HOW LONG?
A 35 MINUTES, 40 MINUTES. I CAME BACK UPSTAIRS AT 11:00 O'CLOCK.
Q AND WHEN YOU CAME BACK UPSTAIRS AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, WAS THE BARKING STILL AUDIBLE?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q WHERE DID YOU GO WHEN YOU CAME UPSTAIRS AT 11:00 O'CLOCK?
A I GOT IN BED.
Q AND WHEN YOU GOT IN BED, WAS THE DOG STILL BARKING?
A YES, HE WAS.
Q WHAT DID YOU DO AT THAT POINT?
A I WAS READING FOR A LITTLE WHILE. I MENTIONED TO MY WIFE THAT, YOU KNOW, I WAS CONCERNED ABOUT THE DOG.
UMM, OUR OWN DOG WAS ON THE BED AND HE WAS REACTING TO THE BARKING BY GROWLING A LITTLE BIT, AND I MAY HAVE -- I THINK I WENT BACK AND TOOK ANOTHER LOOK THROUGH THE SHUTTERS AND I NOTICED THE LINE OF WINDOWS AT THE RESIDENCE. AND WAS A LIGHT ON AND I ASSUMED THAT SOMEBODY WAS HOME.
AND THERE WERE A LOT OF UNITS AS YOU CAN SEE FROM THE MAP THAT WERE CLOSER TO THE SOUND. SO I THOUGHT SOMEBODY MAY HAVE ALREADY DONE SOMETHING ABOUT IT.
Q SO YOU FELT THAT THERE MIGHT HAVE BEEN SOMETHING WRONG, BUT SOMEONE ELSE MAY HAVE REPORTED IT ALREADY?
A UMM, IT WAS -- YOU KNOW, IT WAS HARD TO INTERPRET WHAT WAS GOING ON. THE DOG DIDN'T SOUND AS THOUGH IT WAS IN PAIN OR ANYTHING LIKE THAT. IT SOUNDED, AS I SAID, UNHAPPY.
Q AND WHEN YOU GOT UP TO GO TO THE SHUTTERS IN YOUR MASTER BEDROOM, YOU WENT TO LOOK IN THE DIRECTION OF WHERE THE BARKING SEEMED TO BE COMING FROM?
A YES. THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND WHERE DID YOU LOOK?
A I LOOKED DIRECTLY TOWARD THE CONDOMINIUM IN QUESTION, AND I NOTICED THE ROW OF LIGHTS AS I MENTIONED, AND THEN I WENT BACK TO BED.
Q SO -- AND WHEN YOU SAY THE CONDOMINIUM IN QUESTION, IS THAT THE ONE DEPICTED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH WHICH I WOULD ASK TO BE MARKED PEOPLE'S 39?
A YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
(PEO'S 39 FOR ID = PHOTOGRAPH)
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND WHEN YOU WENT TO LOOK IN THAT DIRECTION, YOU WERE LOOKING THERE BECAUSE IT WAS WHERE THE DOG BARKING SEEMED TO BE COMING FROM?
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED. LEADING.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHY DID YOU LOOK IN THAT DIRECTION?
A I LOOKED IN THAT DIRECTION BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE THE BARKING SOUND WAS COMING FROM.
Q WHEN -- DID YOU GO TO SLEEP IMMEDIATELY AT 11:00 O'CLOCK?
A NO. I READ FOR A WHILE, AND I CAN'T -- I CAN'T TELL YOU HOW LONG I READ, BUT, YOU KNOW, OBVIOUSLY SOMETIME BEFORE -- YOU KNOW, WITHIN THE NEXT 20 MINUTES, 30 MINUTES, I FELL ASLEEP.
Q WHEN YOU FELL ASLEEP, COULD YOU STILL HEAR THE DOG BARKING?
A I THINK I MAY HAVE HEARD IT SPORADICALLY, BUT I WAS BASICALLY TRYING TO FOCUS ON WHAT I WAS READING AND I CAN'T ANSWER THAT QUESTION.
Q DO YOU RECALL HEARING IT STILL BARKING WHILE YOU WERE READING?
A YES. FOR A PORTION OF THE TIME, I DID HEAR IT INITIALLY.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU FIRST HEARD THE DOG BARKING, AFTER A FEW MINUTES, YOU SAID YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS?
A YES. THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND WHEN YOU CAME BACK UPSTAIRS, YOU COULD STILL HEAR IT BARKING?
A YES. BUT OF COURSE, THERE WAS THAT PERIOD OF, YOU KNOW, 30, 40 MINUTES WHERE I WAS AWAY FROM THE MASTER BEDROOM, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU WHETHER IT WAS BARKING CONTINUALLY.
Q BECAUSE YOU WERE IN THAT OFFICE THAT'S PRETTY SOUNDPROOF, RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q WHEN YOU CAME BACK UP THOUGH AND YOU HEARD THE BARKING, DID IT SOUND LIKE THE SAME DOG?
A YES. IT WAS DEFINITELY THE SAME DOG.
Q AND WHEN YOU WENT INTO YOUR BEDROOM AND GOT INTO BED AT ABOUT 11:00 O'CLOCK AND YOU COULD STILL HEAR THE BARKING, WAS THAT STILL THE SAME DOG?
A YES, IT WAS.
Q AND IT WAS ONE DOG BARKING?
A IT WAS ONE DOG BARKING DISTINCTIVELY AND I -- IF THERE WERE OTHER DOGS BARKING, I CERTAINLY DIDN'T HEAR IT.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY,
YOUR HONOR.
CROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COCHRAN:
Q GOOD AFTERNOON, MR. FENJVES.
A GOOD AFTERNOON, SIR.
Q DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION BACK TO THE DATE OF JUNE 12TH, 1994 IN THE EVENING HOURS -- THAT WAS A SUNDAY EVENING; WAS IT NOT, SIR?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND YOU WERE AT HOME AT YOUR RESIDENCE ON GRETNA GREEN; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, THE 800 BLOCK OF GRETNA GREEN, YOU HAVE A VANTAGE POINT WHERE IF YOU LOOK DOWN THIS ALLEY, SOUTH DOWN THE ALLEY, YOU SEE THE NORTHERN MOST PORTION OF THE RESIDENCE THERE ON BUNDY; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q NOW, AT THE TIME, ON JUNE 12TH, 1994, YOU DID NOT KNOW WHO LIVED AT THIS PARTICULAR RESIDENCE, DID YOU?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND ON THAT PARTICULAR EVENING -- SO YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON OR ANYONE ELSE AT THAT POINT, DID YOU?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND ON THAT EVENING, AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, YOU WERE WATCHING WHAT YOU BELIEVE TO BE THE CHANNEL 5 NEWS AT 10:00 O'CLOCK; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT IS RIGHT.
Q AND YOU HAD OCCASION, DID YOU NOT, TO SPEAK WITH SOME MEMBERS OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT; TO WIT, OFFICERS TIPPIN, T-I-P-P-I-N, AND CARR, C-A-R-R, ALONG WITH YOUR WIFE, WHOSE NAME IS -- IS IT JAI OR JIE?
A JAI.
Q -- JAI FENJVES ABOUT 9:10 IN THE MORNING ON JUNE 13TH; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS ALSO CORRECT.
Q AND WHEN YOU FIRST TALKED TO THESE POLICE OFFICERS, THE EVENTS FROM THE NIGHT BEFORE WERE FAIRLY FRESH IN YOUR MIND; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND OF COURSE, IN ADDRESSING AND TALKING TO THE POLICE OFFICERS, YOU TOLD THEM THE TRUTH ABOUT EVERYTHING AS BEST YOU KNEW, RIGHT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT YOU TOLD THE POLICE OFFICERS THAT IT WAS AT ABOUT BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:30 P.M. THAT YOU AND YOUR WIFE HEARD A DOG BARKING UNCONTROLLABLY TO THE REAR OF YOUR RESIDENCE? IS THAT THE WAY YOU PHRASED IT TO THE POLICE OFFICERS?
A NO.
FIRST OF ALL, I DO NOT REMEMBER TELLING THEM 10:15 TO 10:30. I REMEMBER TELLING THEM 10:15 TO 10:20.
Q ALL RIGHT.
LET ME STOP YOU RIGHT THERE.
LET ME --
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I WOULD LIKE TO APPROACH HIM WITH A STATEMENT FORM AND HAVE HIM TAKE A LOOK AT IT AND I WANT TO HAVE HIM READ SOMETHING.
COUNSEL, THIS IS PAGE 100369.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
YOU MAY APPROACH.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: I WANT TO ASK YOU -- FIRST OF ALL, READ THE PORTION TO YOURSELF, AND I'LL ASK YOU SOME QUESTIONS ABOUT IT.
A (WITNESS COMPLIES.)
Q HAVE YOU READ THAT, SIR?
A YES, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: IF I MAY BE ALLOWED TO ASK A COUPLE QUESTIONS FROM HERE, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: SO IF THERE'S AN INDICATION THAT YOU INDICATED TO THE POLICE THAT YOU AND YOUR WIFE HAD LIVED AT THIS LOCATION AT 862 GRETNA GREEN WAY FOR ABOUT TWO YEARS, WOULD THAT BE ACCURATE?
A YES, THAT IS ACCURATE.
Q WOULD IT BE ACCURATE THAT LAST NIGHT, THAT IS JUNE 12TH, 1994 --
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION. WHAT'S THE PURPOSE OF THIS? THERE'S NO IMPEACHMENT BEING OFFERED. I WOULD LIKE AN OFFER OF PROOF AT SIDEBAR.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
MS. CLARK: WHAT'S THE POINT?
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I PROCEED?
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: "LAST NIGHT, JUNE 12, 1994, WITNESS AND HIS WIFE WERE WATCHING THE CHANNEL 5 NEWS AT 10:00 O'CLOCK P.M."
IS THAT ACCURATE?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q "AT APPROXIMATELY 10:15 TO 10:30 P.M., WITNESSES HEARD A DOG BARKING UNCONTROLLABLY TO THE REAR OF THEIR RESIDENCE."
DO YOU RECALL SO INDICATING TO THE POLICE?
A I RECALL ACTUALLY POINTING TO THE POLICE THE SPECIFIC LOCATION THAT I HEARD THE BARKING SOUND COMING FROM.
Q LET ME GET BACK TO MY QUESTION, OKAY.
MY QUESTION IS, DO YOU RECALL SO INDICATING TO THE POLICE, THAT AT ABOUT 10:15 TO 10:30, WITNESSES, YOU AND YOUR WIFE, HEARD A DOG BARKING UNCONTROLLABLY TO THE REAR OF THAT RESIDENCE?
DID YOU SO INDICATE THAT TO THE POLICE?
A NO, SIR.
AS I TOLD YOU, I TOLD THEM THAT I HEARD THE DOG BARKING BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:20.
Q SO IF THEY HAVE THAT WRONG, THEY'RE WRONG; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT IS POSSIBLE BECAUSE I DID NOT SAY THAT.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU THEN TELL THE POLICE, SIR, THAT YOU WENT OUTSIDE ON YOUR REAR PORCH TO LOOK?
A NO, SIR, I DID NOT TELL THEM THAT EITHER.
Q YOU DIDN'T TELL THE POLICE THAT EITHER?
A NO, SIR.
Q THAT YOU LOOKED TO THE SOUTH TOWARD NICOLE SIMPSON'S RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT. I DID THAT FROM THE MASTER BEDROOM.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DID YOU GO OUT ON THE PORCH AND DO THAT?
A NO, I DID NOT, SIR.
Q DO YOU HAVE A PORCH THAT LOOKS OUT?
A I HAVE A PORCH, AND BASICALLY I JUST POPPED OPEN THE PLANTATION SHUTTERS AND LOOKED OUT AND --
Q CAN YOU LISTEN TO MY QUESTION?
DO YOU HAVE A PORCH?
A YES, SIR, I DO HAVE A PORCH.
Q DID YOU EVER ON JUNE 12TH IN THE LATE EVENING HOURS GO OUT ON THE PORCH AND LOOK SOUTH DOWN THE ALLEYWAY?
A NO, SIR.
MS. CLARK: MAY I ASK COUNSEL BE INSTRUCTED TO GO BACK TO COUNSEL TABLE?
MR. COCHRAN: I'M STILL NOT FINISHED WITH THE REPORT.
THE COURT: DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS AS TO THE REPORT?
MR. COCHRAN: YES, THERE IS.
MS. CLARK: WHY DOESN'T HE LEAVE THE REPORT WITH THE WITNESS?
THE COURT: NO.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, THIS IS CROSS-EXAMINATION. MAY I PROCEED?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, SO IN ANSWER TO THE QUESTION, YOU NEVER WENT OUT ON THIS PORCH ACTUALLY; IS THAT RIGHT, SIR?
A NO, SIR, I DO NOT RECALL GOING OUT ON THE PORCH.
Q AND ALSO, AT THAT TIME, ON JUNE 13, 1994 IN THE EARLY MORNING HOURS, YOU DIDN'T KNOW WHOSE RESIDENCE THIS WAS DOWN THERE, DID YOU?
A NO, SIR, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU EVER TELL THE POLICE THAT, "HE OBSERVED A JEEP PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY BUT SAW NO SUSPECTS, VEHICLES OR ACTIVITY"? DID YOU TELL THE POLICE THAT?
A I THINK THERE WAS A LITTLE BIT OF MISUNDERSTANDING IF I CAN CLARIFY THAT.
Q CAN YOU LISTEN TO MY QUESTION?
A NO, I DID NOT TELL THE POLICE THAT.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. THE WITNESS SHOULD BE ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN HIS ANSWER.
THE COURT: HOLD ON. HE WILL.
MR. COCHRAN, I DON'T SEE ANY NEED FOR YOU TO BE THERE AT THIS POINT.
MR. COCHRAN: JUST ONE MORE, THEN I WILL BE ON MY WAY.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WELL, DO YOU NEED TO SHOW HIM SOMETHING THAT'S THERE?
MR. COCHRAN: YES, I DO.
I WOULD LIKE FOR HIM --
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, I WOULD LIKE FOR YOU TO READ FROM THIS POINT TO THE END TO YOURSELF, OKAY?
A (WITNESS COMPLIES).
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: HAVE YOU READ THAT?
A YES.
MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.
MAY I RETURN OVER THERE NOW, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: YES, PLEASE.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, MR. FENJVES, SIR, YOU NEVER TOLD THE POLICE THAT YOU OBSERVED A JEEP PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY, BUT SAW NO SUSPECTS, VEHICLES OR ACTIVITY? YOU NEVER TOLD THEM THAT OR DID YOU TELL THEM THAT?
A A VARIATION ON THAT THEME, MIGHT HAVE --
Q VARIATION ON THE THEME?
A YES.
Q OKAY.
WELL, LET'S SEE. LET'S SEE IF WE CAN FIGURE OUT WHAT PART YOU TOLD THEM.
A IF I COULD BE ALLOWED TO EXPLAIN IT.
Q YOU WILL BE. YOU WILL BE. I'M JUST TRYING TO FIGURE OUT WHETHER OR NOT THE REPORT IS ACCURATE FIRST, AND THEN YOU CAN EXPLAIN, SIR.
OKAY?
DID YOU, WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH YOUR SHUTTERS, SEE A JEEP PARKED IN THE DRIVEWAY THAT NIGHT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q OKAY.
DID YOU SEE ANY SUSPECTS WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH YOUR SHUTTERS THAT NIGHT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY VEHICLES WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH YOUR SHUTTERS THAT NIGHT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU SEE ANY ACTIVITY WHEN YOU LOOKED THROUGH YOUR SHUTTERS THAT NIGHT?
A NOTHING AT ALL UNUSUAL.
Q AND THEN YOU ALSO TOLD THE OFFICERS, DID YOU NOT, THAT NEITHER YOU NOR YOUR WIFE KNEW WHO LIVED IN THE HOUSE AT THAT POINT; ISN'T THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT, SIR.
Q AND YOU TOLD THE OFFICERS, DID YOU NOT, THAT THE DOG CONTINUED TO BARK UNTIL YOU WENT TO BED AT APPROXIMATELY 11:30; IS THAT ACCURATE?
A I ACTUALLY WENT TO BED AT 11:00. I MAY HAVE GONE TO SLEEP BY 11:30, BUT I DID TELL THEM THAT I HEARD THE DOG AFTER I HAD RETURNED TO BED.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO THAT'S FAIRLY ACCURATE, 11:00 TO 11:30?
A YES, SIR, THAT IS CORRECT.
Q NOW, LET'S BACK UP.
YOU WANTED TO EXPLAIN TO US THAT YOU TOLD THE OFFICERS SOMETHING THAT WAS OBVIOUSLY NOT CORRECT IN THE STATEMENT THAT I READ YOU; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
DID YOU TELL THEM AT SOME POINT, SIR, THAT YOU HAD SEEN A JEEP AT THAT LOCATION ON OTHER OCCASIONS, A FEW DAYS BEFORE?
A I MAY HAVE SAID THAT I HAD SEEN A JEEP THERE, BUT I DON'T RECALL THAT. I'M SORRY.
Q YOU DON'T RECALL THAT AT ALL.
ALL RIGHT.
AND THE JEEP, IF YOU SAW THAT JEEP THERE, WHAT COLOR WAS IT?
A THE JEEP IN QUESTION WAS A GREEN JEEP.
Q DARK GREEN?
A YES, SIR.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND HAD YOU --
A I BELIEVE IT WAS GREEN.
Q YOUR BEST RECOLLECTION?
A RIGHT.
Q AND THIS DARK GREEN JEEP, HAD YOU SEEN THAT AT TIMES BEFORE JUNE 12TH, 1994?
A I BELIEVE I MAY HAVE SEEN THAT SAME JEEP IN THE ALLEY.
Q NOW, WITH REGARD TO THE TIMING ON THE EVENING THIS HAPPENED, YOU AND YOUR WIFE DISAGREE AS TO THE TIME THAT YOU FIRST HEARD THIS BARKING, DON'T YOU?
A DO WE?
Q YEAH. DO YOU? I'M ASKING YOU.
A NOT TO MY RECOLLECTION.
Q AND SHE WAS PRESENT DURING THIS INTERVIEW THAT YOU HAD WITH THE POLICE ON JUNE 13TH, IS THAT CORRECT, THE NEXT MORNING?
A WELL, SHE WAS PRESENT FOR PART OF IT, BUT THEY BASICALLY FOCUSED THEIR ATTENTION ON ME AND SHE WENT ABOUT SOME OTHER BUSINESS SHE HAD TO TAKE CARE OF.
Q BUT SHE ALSO TALKED TO THEM DURING THAT INTERVIEW; DID SHE NOT?
A VERY BRIEFLY, I BELIEVE SHE DID, YES.
Q NOW, SIR, AFTER A PERIOD OF TIME WHETHER IT WAS 10:20 OR WHATEVER TIME, ABOUT FIVE TO SEVEN MINUTES AFTER YOU FIRST HEARD THE BARKING, YOU THEN LEFT FROM YOUR BEDROOM AREA, AND THAT'S WHEN YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO YOUR OFFICE AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, DURING THIS PERIOD OF TIME, YOUR OFFICE IS FAIRLY SECURE?
A YES, SIR.
Q SO YOU COULDN'T HEAR WHAT WAS GOING ON AT THAT POINT. IS THAT A FAIR STATEMENT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND AS I UNDERSTAND FURTHER, SO THAT IF IT'S NOW CLOSE TO 10:30, YOU STAYED IN YOUR OFFICE FOR MAYBE HALF AN HOUR, THEREABOUTS?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND SO THEN IT WOULD BE APPROXIMATELY 11:00 O'CLOCK WHEN YOU RETURNED BACK UPSTAIRS TO THE BEDROOM AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?
A IT WAS 11:00 O'CLOCK.
Q IT WAS 11:00 O'CLOCK?
AND NOW, WITH REGARD TO -- YOU WERE DOWNSTAIRS IN YOUR OFFICE SOMEWHERE AROUND A HALF HOUR?
A 30 TO 40 MINUTES.
Q OKAY.
AND YOUR WIFE, DO YOU KNOW WHERE WAS SHE WHEN YOU LEFT TO GO DOWN TO YOUR OFFICE?
A I BELIEVE SHE WAS -- I BELIEVE SHE STAYED IN THE MASTER BEDROOM. I DON'T KNOW WHETHER SHE CLOSED THE BALCONY DOORS. I HAVE NO IDEA.
Q OKAY.
THE QUESTION NOW RELATES TO WHERE SHE WAS WHEN YOU LEFT.
SHE WAS IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND DID YOU EVER SEE HER DURING THIS 30- TO 40-MINUTE PERIOD DOWNSTAIRS IN YOUR OFFICE?
A NO, SIR.
Q WHEN YOU RETURNED BACK UPSTAIRS TO YOUR OFFICE, WAS SHE STILL IN THE MASTER BEDROOM?
A YES, SHE WAS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
WAS SHE STILL IN THE SAME GENERAL AREA WHERE YOU HAD LEFT HER?
A YES.
WHATEVER SHE HAD BEEN WATCHING WAS JUST ENDING. SO THAT'S HOW I KNEW IT WAS 11:00 O'CLOCK.
Q SO WHATEVER WAS ON TELEVISION -- WAS IT DYNASTY REUNION OR --
A YES, I THINK THAT'S WHAT IT WAS ACTUALLY.
Q DYNASTY REUNION.
A YES.
Q AND IT WAS JUST ABOUT GOING OFF AT ABOUT 11:00 O'CLOCK, IS THAT RIGHT --
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q -- WHEN YOU CAME BACK UP?
ALL RIGHT.
AND YOU -- AS I UNDERSTAND YOUR TESTIMONY, WHEN YOU CAME BACK UPSTAIRS AND NOW IT'S 11:00 O'CLOCK, YOU KNOW THAT BECAUSE DYNASTY REUNION WAS GOING OFF, THIS DOG WAS CONTINUING TO BARK; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q YOU COULD NOW HEAR IT AGAIN AT ANY RATE?
A YES, SIR.
Q HAD YOU EVER ON NIGHTS BEFORE JUNE 12TH, 1994 HEARD THAT DOG BARK, THAT YOU SAY YOU COULD IDENTIFY THAT PARTICULAR BARK?
A NO -- SIR, NOT IN THAT WAY. I MEAN NOT IN A WAY THAT WOULD CALL ATTENTION TO ITSELF.
Q OKAY.
THERE ARE A LOT OF PEOPLE WHO WALK DOGS IN THAT AREA; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR, INCLUDING MYSELF.
Q INCLUDING YOU? YOU WALK DOGS?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q AND YOU INDICATED IN YOUR DIRECT EXAMINATION YOU FELT THIS DOG AND THIS SOUND SOUNDED LIKE AN UNHAPPY DOG AS YOU DESCRIBED IT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND YOU HAD NOT HEARD THIS UNHAPPY DOG SOUND BEFORE, RIGHT --
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q -- IN THAT PARTICULAR AREA?
A YES, SIR.
Q THAT NIGHT, AS YOU LISTENED, ESPECIALLY EITHER BEFORE YOU WENT DOWNSTAIRS TO YOUR OFFICE OR WHEN YOU CAME BACK UP, DID YOU HEAR OTHER DOGS BARKING WHO SOUNDED LESS UNHAPPY?
A NOT THAT I CAN RECALL. I MEAN CERTAINLY NOTHING THAT MADE ME SIT UP AND TAKE NOTE.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO WITH REGARD TO WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT OF YOUR SHUTTERS, WAS THAT BEFORE YOU WENT TO THE -- DOWN TO THE OFFICE OR AFTER YOU CAME BACK UP?
A I BELIEVE I LOOKED OUT OF MY SHUTTERS BOTH TIMES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
SO YOU THINK YOU MAY HAVE LOOKED OUT TWICE?
A YES, SIR.
Q YOU NEVER WENT OUT ON THE PORCH, BUT YOU LOOKED OUT THE SHUTTERS?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND SO THAT YOU CAN HELP THE COURT AND JURY, SIR, WHEN YOU LOOKED OUT OF THESE SHUTTERS -- THE SHUTTERS ARE IN YOUR BEDROOM; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q -- YOU ARE LOOKING IN A SOUTHERLY DIRECTION; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND YOU'VE DESCRIBED FOR THIS COURT AND JURY THAT AS YOU LOOKED IN A SOUTHERLY DIRECTION -- AND YOUR BELIEF THAT THIS SOUND OF THE UNHAPPY DOG WAS COMING FROM NEAR THE AREA OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY, RIGHT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND CAN YOU TELL US THE RESIDENCE THAT YOU SAW ON THE SCREEN THERE, HOW FAR IS THAT RESIDENCE FROM THE CORNER? HOW MANY HOUSES IS THAT FROM THE CORNER?
A I THINK -- I BELIEVE THERE'S PROBABLY TWO HOUSES BETWEEN -- WELL, THERE'S ACTUALLY ONE LOT BETWEEN THAT RESIDENCE AND THE CORNER. THAT'S IT.
Q ALL RIGHT.
ONE LOT, TWO HOUSES?
A NO. ONE LOT, ONE HOUSE I BELIEVE.
Q OKAY.
SO ONE LOT AND ONE HOUSE?
A NO. NO. JUST ONE HOUSE ON ONE LOT.
Q NOW, YOU SURE ABOUT THAT?
A I'M NOT POSITIVE. AND OBVIOUSLY THERE'S THE UNIT THAT IS PART OF THE SAME CONDOMINIUM BUILDING. THERE WAS THE UNIT NEXT TO THE ONE THAT NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON LIVED.
Q BUT AT ANY RATE, SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, THE UNIT THAT YOU CAME TO LEARN WAS NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON'S UNIT WAS NOT ON THE CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY?
A NO, IT WAS NOT ON THE CORNER.
Q THERE WAS AT LEAST ONE UNIT, AT LEAST ONE UNIT SOUTH OF THAT PARTICULAR RESIDENCE; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR, THAT IS RIGHT.
Q AND SO THAT WE'RE CLEAR, HOW FAR NORTH DO YOU -- DID YOU LIVE -- YOUR ESTIMATION -- DID YOU LIVE AT THAT POINT NORTH OF THE CORNER OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY IN YARDS OR FEET, SIR?
A I'D GUESS 150 YARDS.
Q 150 YARDS?
A MAYBE 125 YARDS.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND HAVING IN MIND A FOOTBALL FIELD, IT WOULD BE ABOUT 25 YARDS OVER AND ABOVE WHAT WOULD BE A REGULAR FOOTBALL FIELD, RIGHT?
A RIGHT.
Q AND WITH REGARD TO THAT UNIT THAT YOU WERE SHOWN BY MISS CLARK, THE LIGHTING THAT YOU SAW --
MR. COCHRAN: MAY WE HAVE THAT PHOTOGRAPH PUT BACK? I'M NOT SURE OF THE NUMBER. I'M NOT SURE THIS HAS A NUMBER EITHER, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: I THINK IT'S 39.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WITH REGARD TO THAT PARTICULAR UNIT, THE LIGHTING THAT YOU SEE ON 39 NOW, THE LIGHTING DIDN'T LOOK LIKE THAT THAT NIGHT, DID IT, SIR?
A NO, IT DID NOT LOOK LIKE THAT.
Q NOW, I WANT YOU TO BE AS ACCURATE AS YOU CAN.
AS YOU LOOK DOWN THAT ALLEY, WE UNDERSTAND YOU'RE LOOKING FROM THE NORTH TOWARDS THE SOUTH. LOOKING FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH.
DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT AND JURY --
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION. THAT'S INCORRECT. THAT'S NOT LOOKING FROM NORTH TO SOUTH.
MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET ME SEE IF I CAN RESTATE IT.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: YOU'RE LOOKING FROM -- YOU'RE AT NORTH LOOKING TOWARDS SOUTH, RIGHT?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q WHAT I AM ASKING YOU TO DO NOW IS TO -- DESCRIBE FOR US THE LIGHTING THAT NIGHT AS YOU -- WITH REGARD TO THAT BUILDING.
A WELL, WITH REGARD TO THIS PHOTOGRAPH, I CAN NOT SEE THE WINDOWS. THEY'RE NOT INCLUDED IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH. BUT ON THE LEFT SIDE OF THIS BUILDING --
Q YES, SIR.
A -- MOVING TOWARD BUNDY, THERE IS -- ON THE TOP FLOOR, THERE'S A ROW OF WINDOWS.
Q OKAY.
CAN YOU -- YOU CAN'T SEE WHAT I'M DOING.
CAN YOU SEE THAT?
A YES, SIR.
Q YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ON THE LEFT SIDE OR THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING, THERE IS SOME WINDOWS?
A RIGHT. THAT'S EXACTLY RIGHT.
Q YOU COULDN'T SEE THIS PORTION?
A I COULD NOT SEE THIS PORTION.
Q SO IN OTHER WORDS, WHAT'S DEPICTED HERE IS NOT WHAT YOU COULD SEE AT ALL; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q GEE, OKAY.
SO YOU COULD SEE THE NORTH SIDE --
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION TO COUNSEL EDITORIALIZING.
MR. COCHRAN: WELL, I JUST SAID GEE.
THE COURT: GEE.
MR. COCHRAN: OKAY. THEN STRIKE "GEE".
THE COURT: GOSH. STOP IT.
MR. COCHRAN: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: NOW, WITH REGARD TO THIS, THEN, SIR, YOU COULD SEE THE NORTH SIDE OF THE BUILDING AS I'M INDICATING THERE, IS THAT RIGHT, LOOKING AT THIS PHOTO, THE LEFT SIDE?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q OKAY.
AND TELL US AND DESCRIBE FOR THE COURT AND JURY WHAT YOU COULD SEE WITH REGARD TO THAT LEFT SIDE, ANY WINDOWS OR ANYTHING.
A THERE ARE MAYBE THREE OR FOUR WINDOWS UP THERE THAT DON'T APPEAR TO OPEN. I CAN'T TELL WHETHER THERE'S ANY ROOMS UP THERE. IT SEEMS TO ME THERE MAY BE SOME KIND OF STAIRWELL LEADING TO A DECK. THAT'S ABOUT ALL I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT IT.
Q AND YOU'VE NEVER BEEN IN THERE AT THAT TIME; IS THAT CORRECT?
A I BEG YOUR PARDON?
Q YOU'VE NEVER BEEN IN THAT PLACE AT THAT TIME, THAT PARTICULAR UNIT?
A IN THAT -- YES, I HAVE ACTUALLY. I WAS THERE WHEN IT WAS ON THE MARKET.
Q WELL, YOU HAD BEEN THERE ONE TIME?
A YES.
Q AND THIS IS BEFORE JUNE 12TH?
A LONG BEFORE. TWO YEARS AGO.
Q SO 1982?
A RIGHT.
Q OKAY.
AND THESE WINDOWS THAT YOU BELIEVE WHERE YOU SAW THESE LIGHTS, DO YOU RECALL SEEING THOSE WHEN YOU WERE THERE IN 1992?
A NO, SIR, I DO NOT.
Q SO YOU JUST SAW SOME LIGHTING COMING FROM THE WINDOWS. IS THAT WHAT YOU SAW?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND DID YOU SEE ANYTHING ELSE WITH REGARD TO THAT SIDE OF THE BUILDING, ANYTHING ELSE RELATING TO THAT PARTICULAR BUILDING AT THAT TIME?
A NO. AS -- I THINK I MENTIONED, THERE WAS -- THERE SEEMS TO BE SOME DECK AREA UP THERE AND AWNING, AN UMBRELLA THAT HAD NOT BEEN UNFURLED.
Q ANYTHING ELSE THAT YOU RECALL SEEING AT THAT TIME?
A THAT IS ALL I CAN TELL YOU.
Q ALL RIGHT.
HOW LONG DID YOU LOOK OUT OF THE SHUTTER WINDOW ON EACH OCCASION IF THERE WERE TWO OCCASIONS, SIR?
A OH, YOU KNOW, 10, 15 SECONDS.
Q VERY SHORT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND ULTIMATELY THEN, YOU WENT TO BED AND WENT TO SLEEP SOMETIME AROUND 11:30 THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A I GOT INTO BED AROUND 11:00 AND I READ FOR A WHILE, AND I CAN'T TELL YOU I FELL ASLEEP IMMEDIATELY OR IN 40 MINUTES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND WOULD IT BE CORRECT THAT YOU PERHAPS FELL ASLEEP ABOUT 11:30 OR 11:40?
A IT'S A POSSIBILITY, YES.
Q DID YOU SO TESTIFY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A I BELIEVE I DID, YES.
Q 11:30, 11:40?
AND AT THAT TIME, THAT WAS FAIRLY ACCURATE AS FAR AS YOU KNOW?
A AS FAR AS I KNOW, YES.
Q AND AS FAR AS YOU KNOW, THE DOG MAY HAVE CONTINUED TO BARK LATER THAN THAT; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, SIR.
Q WOULD YOU ALSO INDICATE OR TESTIFY THAT IT IS NOT UNUSUAL TO HEAR DOGS BARKING IN THAT PARTICULAR NEIGHBORHOOD?
A YES, SIR, I DID SAY THAT.
Q AND YOU NEVER AT ANY TIME WENT OUTSIDE IN AN EFFORT TO SEE WHERE THAT DOG WAS BARKING OR WHERE THAT DOG WAS, DID YOU?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q DID YOU INDICATE AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING THAT YOU USUALLY WATCHED THE FIRST 20 MINUTES OR SO OF THE NEWS AND, "IT SORT OF GETS INTO AREAS I'M NOT INTERESTED IN"?
A YES. I THINK I SAID THE FIRST 15 OR 20 MINUTES OF THE NEWS AND THEN IT GETS INTO AREAS I'M NOT INTERESTED IN.
Q WELL, WOULD IT BE HELPFUL FOR YOU TO SEE WHAT YOU ACTUALLY SAID?
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I --
PAGE 27 OF HIS TESTIMONY, YOUR HONOR, PRELIMINARY HEARING.
MAY I APPROACH?
PAGE 27, COUNSEL.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WELL, LET ME ASK YOU THIS, SEE IF IT REFRESHES YOUR RECOLLECTION.
"QUESTION: IS THAT A ONE-HOUR NEWSCAST?
"ANSWER: WELL, I DON'T KNOW. I USUALLY WATCH THE FIRST 20 MINUTES OF THE NEWS. THEN I SORT OF -- IT GETS INTO AREAS I'M NOT THAT INTERESTED IN."
IS THAT CORRECT? DO YOU REMEMBER SO TESTIFYING?
A UH, YES, I DO.
Q AND THEN YOU WENT ON:
"QUESTION: I SEE. SO YOU REGULARLY STOP WATCHING AFTER ABOUT 20 MINUTES?
"ANSWER: ABOUT 20 TO 25 MINUTES, YEAH."
RECALL SO TESTIFYING?
A I BELIEVE SO.
Q AND THEN YOU WENT ON TO SAY:
"AND IT WAS ABOUT 20 OR 25 MINUTES THEN --"
MS. CLARK: WELL, OBJECTION. THAT'S THE QUESTION, NOT THE ANSWER. THIS WITNESS DID NOT GO ON TO SAY. COUNSEL WENT ON TO SAY AND IT WAS ABOUT --
THE COURT: BE CLEAR ON THE QUESTION AND ANSWER HERE.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I FINISH, PLEASE?
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: LET ME READ THIS QUESTION SO WE'RE CLEAR.
"QUESTION: I SEE. SO YOU REGULARLY WATCH THE -- REGULARLY STOPPED WATCHING AFTER ABOUT 20 MINUTES?
"ANSWER: ABOUT 20 TO 25 MINUTES, YEAH."
THAT WAS THE ANSWER.
AND IS THAT HOW YOU SO TESTIFIED, SIR?
A I BELIEVE SO.
Q ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL STOPS SHORT OF THE ACTUAL ANSWER FOR THAT NIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN: IF SHE WOULD JUST SIT AND BE PATIENT, I'M GOING TO GET TO THE REST OF THE TRANSCRIPT.
MS. CLARK: HE HAS IT RIGHT THERE.
THE COURT: COUNSEL, HOLD ON.
NEXT QUESTION.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: AND CONTINUING ON, DO YOU RECALL BEING ASKED THIS QUESTION AND GIVING THIS ANSWER, SIR?
"AND IT WAS --"
A WELL, I RECALL BEING ASKED THAT QUESTION AND I THINK I CORRECTED THE QUESTION WHEN IT WAS ASKED.
Q ALL RIGHT.
LET ME READ YOU THE NEXT QUESTION.
A OKAY.
Q "QUESTION: AND IT WAS ABOUT 20, 25 MINUTES THEN INTO THE NEWSCAST THAT YOU FIRST HEARD THE DOG?
"NO. I THINK --"
AND JUST LIKE NOW, YOUR HONOR, OBJECTION, MISS CLARK.
"THE WITNESS: IT WAS ABOUT 15 OR 20 MINUTES INTO THE NEWSCAST I FIRST HEARD THE DOG.
"THE COURT: EXCUSE ME FOR JUST ONE MOMENT."
THE COURT: JUST LIKE NOW.
MR. COCHRAN: AND THEN GOES ON -- THE JUDGE ADMONISHED THE LAWYERS THEN JUST LIKE NOW.
AND THEN THE QUESTION -- AND I'LL END IT WITH THIS.
THE QUESTION WAS:
"DID YOU HEAR THE DOG CONTINUE TO BARK AS YOU WERE WATCHING THE NEWS?
"ANSWER: YES, I DID."
RIGHT?
A RIGHT.
Q DID YOU EVER BECOME AWARE OF ANY MEMBERS OF THE LOS ANGELES POLICE DEPARTMENT OUT AND AROUND IN THAT ALLEY SOUTH OF WHERE YOU LIVE THAT PARTICULAR NIGHT?
A NO, I DID NOT.
Q AND YOU -- WHEN YOU AWAKENED THE NEXT MORNING AT OR ABOUT 9:00 O'CLOCK OR WHENEVER YOU AWAKENED, YOU HAD THIS CONVERSATION WITH THE TWO POLICE OFFICERS I TALKED TO YOU ABOUT THAT NEXT MORNING ON THE 13TH; IS THAT CORRECT?
A YES, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q AND AS YOU WERE TALKING TO THE POLICE OFFICERS, YOU DESCRIBED FOR THE JURY THEY WERE FOCUSING IN ON YOU. DID THEY SEEM TO BE WRITING DOWN WHAT YOU WERE SAYING?
A UH, YES. I BELIEVE THEY WERE TAKING NOTES.
Q AND THEY WOULD ASK YOU QUESTIONS AND THEY WOULD WRITE SOMETHING DOWN ON A TABLET?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND IT'S TRUE, IS IT NOT, THAT AT SOME POINT, DID THE OFFICERS ASK YOU TO TAKE A LOOK FROM YOUR HOUSE LOOKING SOUTHERLY DOWN THAT ALLEY THERE?
A THAT'S RIGHT. AND I THINK THAT'S WHERE THE CONFUSION AROSE BECAUSE WE STEPPED OUT ONTO THE BALCONY.
Q YOU'VE ANSWERED THE QUESTION NOW.
THEY ASKED YOU TO LOOK SOUTH, DID THEY?
A YES.
Q AND THEN WHEN YOU LOOKED SOUTH, DID YOU SAY TO THEM AT SOME POINT THAT THERE -- THE JEEP WAS PARKED THERE A FEW DAYS AGO? DID YOU MAKE THAT STATEMENT?
A YES, I BELIEVE I DID.
Q AND YOU WERE REFERRING TO THE DARK GREEN JEEP THAT YOU TALKED ABOUT EARLIER, SIR?
A YES. BUT AS I THINK BACK ON IT NOW, THAT JEEP WAS ACTUALLY THERE AND IT WAS BEING DUSTED AS WE WERE LOOKING DOWN THE ALLEY.
Q SO IT WAS BEING DUSTED AT THAT TIME ON JUNE 13TH?
A YES, SIR. SO I WAS ABLE TO SAY RIGHT THERE WHERE THE JEEP WAS PARKED.
Q AND THEN -- BUT YOU HAD NOT SEEN THAT JEEP THE NIGHT BEFORE?
A I HAD NOT SEEN THAT JEEP THE NIGHT BEFORE.
Q SO WE ARE CLEAR, WHEN YOU SAY THAT JEEP WAS BEING DUSTED, WHAT DO YOU MEAN BY THAT?
A THE POLICE TECHNICIANS WERE IN THE AREA AND --
Q THEY WERE DUSTING THE JEEP FOR FINGERPRINTS?
A YES. FOR FINGERPRINTS, YES, SIR.
Q YOU SAW SOME POWDER ON THE JEEP?
A YES, SIR, THAT'S CORRECT.
Q YOU ARE NOT -- YOU ARE A DOG OWNER; IS THAT CORRECT?
A THAT'S RIGHT.
Q AND AS SUCH, I PRESUME YOU'VE OWNED A DOG FOR SOME NUMBER OF YEARS?
A A COUPLE OF YEARS, YEAH.
Q YOU'RE NOT AN EXPERT IN DOGS BARKING AS SUCH, ARE YOU?
A NO, SIR. I DO NOT PRETEND TO BE.
Q AND YOU CAN'T TELL PARTICULAR PEDIGREE OF A DOG, ONE DOG OVER ANOTHER WHEN THEY BARK, CAN YOU?
A NO, I CAN NOT, SIR.
Q AND AS I UNDERSTAND IT, YOU NEVER AT ANY TIME THAT NIGHT SAW A DOG?
A I DID NOT SEE A DOG.
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I HAVE JUST A MOMENT, YOUR HONOR?
THE COURT: CERTAINLY.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: THE STATEMENT THAT I READ TO YOU WRITTEN BY OR BY THE TWO OFFICERS, TIPPIN AND CARR, YOU HAVE SEEN THAT STATEMENT BEFORE TODAY; HAVE YOU NOT?
A I BELIEVE IT WAS SHOWN TO ME DURING THE PRELIMINARY HEARING, YES.
Q ALL RIGHT.
AND HAVE YOU SEEN IT SINCE THAT TIME AT ALL?
A NO, I HAVE NOT.
Q THAT'S THE TIME YOU THINK YOU SAW IT?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND PRIOR TO TESTIFYING HERE, DID YOU HAVE OCCASION TO REVIEW OR READ YOUR PRELIMINARY HEARING TESTIMONY?
A YES, SIR, I DID.
Q AND WHO GAVE YOU THAT?
A IT WAS SUPPLIED FOR ME BY THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY WHEN I WAS SUBPOENAED.
Q OKAY.
AND THEY GAVE YOU A COPY OF WHAT YOU TESTIFIED ABOUT?
A THAT IS CORRECT.
Q AND YOU READ THAT OVER OF COURSE?
A YES, SIR.
Q AND THEN WHEN YOU CAME DOWN HERE -- IS THIS THE FIRST DAY YOU'VE BEEN DOWN?
A YES, SIR.
Q WHEN YOU CAME DOWN HERE TODAY, YOU TALKED TO ONE OF THE DISTRICT ATTORNEYS BEFORE YOU TOOK THE STAND?
A I DID.
Q WHICH ONE DID YOU TALK TO?
A I BELIEVE I TALKED TO CHERI LEWIS.
Q VERY NICE LADY OVER THERE, RIGHT?
A YES, THAT IS CORRECT.
Q WHEN DID YOU TALK TO HER?
A WHEN DID I TALK TO HER?
Q YES. YES.
A THIS MORNING.
MR. COCHRAN: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER AT THIS POINT, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: REDIRECT.
MS. CLARK: YES, THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR,
REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q ALL RIGHT.
SIR, WHEN YOU INDICATED THAT THE BARKING SEEMED TO COME FROM THE AREA OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY, DID YOU MEAN PRECISELY THAT CORNER, THE VERY CORNER WHERE BUNDY AND DOROTHY INTERSECT?
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THAT QUESTION, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: SUSTAINED. IT'S LEADING.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHAT DID YOU MEAN BY THAT?
MR. COCHRAN: THE QUESTION HAS BEEN ASKED AND ANSWERED.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
YOU CAN ANSWER THE QUESTION.
THE WITNESS: BASICALLY, THAT THAT WAS THE GENERAL AREA THAT THE SOUND WAS COMING FROM. IT WOULD BE VERY HARD TO PINPOINT THE EXACT LOCATION. SO THAT IS THE CLOSEST CORNER AND THAT'S WHAT I USED AS MY -- YOU KNOW, MY GEOGRAPHICAL PINPOINT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AS A REFERENCE POINT?
A THAT'S ALL IT WAS, YES, MA'AM.
Q AND IN YOUR OPINION, IS THE LOCATION OF 875 SOUTH BUNDY IN THE GENERAL AREA OF BUNDY AND DOROTHY?
A YES, IT IS.
Q NOW, YOU WERE ATTEMPTING -- YOU ASKED FOR PERMISSION TO EXPLAIN TO US THAT STATEMENT IN THE POLICE REPORT ABOUT SEEING THE JEEP.
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FROM OF THE QUESTION. IT'S ARGUMENTATIVE TO START WITH.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND WOULD YOU LIKE A CHANCE TO EXPLAIN THAT?
A YES.
VERY BRIEFLY, WHAT HAPPENED WAS, THE TWO OFFICERS ASKED ME IF WE COULD GO OUT ON THE DECK AND TAKE A LOOK AT THE HOUSE, AND WE DID THIS. AND I ASSUME THE CONFUSION AROSE FROM THE FACT THAT WE WERE OUT ON THE DECK AND THAT THERE WAS A GREEN JEEP THAT WAS BEING DUSTED FOR FINGERPRINTS IN FRONT OF THE NICOLE BROWN SIMPSON RESIDENCE.
AND IN THEIR REPORT, YOU KNOW, THEY MADE A SMALL MISTAKE AND ASSUMED THAT I HAD GONE OUT ON THE NIGHT IN QUESTION.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, I MOVE TO STRIKE THAT AS SPECULATIVE.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND DO YOU RECALL GIVING THAT EXPLANATION AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING WHEN YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT THIS ISSUE PREVIOUSLY BACK IN JULY?
A I MAY HAVE TRIED GIVING THAT EXPLANATION. I MAY NOT HAVE MADE MYSELF AS CLEAR AS I WOULD HAVE LIKED TO HAVE MADE MYSELF.
Q DO YOU RECALL ALSO BEING ASKED AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING BACK IN JULY ABOUT THE PORTION OF THE POLICE REPORT THAT INDICATES THAT YOU WENT OUT ON THE REAR PORCH AND WHEN YOU HEARD THE BARKING? DO YOU REMEMBER THAT?
A YES. I REMEMBER BEING SHOWN THAT REPORT ALSO.
Q AND DID YOU EXPLAIN THE DISCREPANCY THERE AS WELL?
A YES, I ATTEMPTED TO.
Q AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT YOU EXPLAINED TO COUNSEL BACK IN JULY OF 1994 ABOUT THAT DISCREPANCY?
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION TO THE USE OF THE WORD "COUNSEL". I WAS NOT THERE.
MS. CLARK: MR. SHAPIRO WAS.
MR. COCHRAN: UNCERTAIN.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: COULD YOU REPEAT THE QUESTION? I AM SORRY.
THE COURT: I THOUGHT WE ALREADY EXPLAINED THAT DISCREPANCY.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, WHAT I'M TRYING TO DO IS POINT OUT A PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT.
THE COURT: I AM SORRY?
MS. CLARK: PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENT.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, ASKED AND ANSWERED. WE ALREADY COVERED IT.
MS. CLARK: NOT BY ME.
MR. COCHRAN: CUMULATIVE.
THE COURT: IT'S CUMULATIVE AT THIS POINT.
MS. CLARK: MAY WE APPROACH?
THE COURT: SURE.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE HELD AT THE BENCH:)
THE COURT: WE ARE AT SIDEBAR.
HOW MANY TIMES DOES THE GUY HAVE TO SAY, "I TALKED TO THE POLICE. WE STEPPED OUT ON THE BALCONY, THAT'S HOW THEY MADE THE MISTAKE?" HOW MANY TIMES DO WE HAVE TO SAY THIS?
MS. CLARK: BUT, YOUR HONOR, I'M NOT THE ONE --
EXCUSE ME, COUNSEL. CAN I BE HEARD, PLEASE?
MR. COCHRAN: PLEASE. YES, YOU MAY.
MS. CLARK: MR. COCHRAN WENT ON FOR SOME LENGTH ABOUT SOME APPARENT DISCREPANCY IN THE POLICE REPORT. I HAVE NOT HAD A CHANCE TO QUESTION THIS WITNESS ABOUT IT AT ALL. IN FACT, PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENTS OF THIS WITNESS INDICATING EXPLANATIONS WERE GIVEN TO EVERYTHING THAT COUNSEL RAISED AND GIVEN BACK IN JULY.
COUNSEL IS GOING INTO THESE THINGS WITHOUT RANGE AS THOUGH THEY HAD NO IDEA THEY WERE EVER CORRECTED, AND THAT'S NOT FAIR TO LEAVE THE JURY WITH THAT IMPRESSION OF THIS WITNESS OR THEIR TESTIMONY. IT'S JUST NOT FAIR. I THINK IT'S VERY IMPORTANT.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, DO ME A HUGE FAVOR. WHEN I SAY, "MISS CLARK," THAT MEANS STOP, OKAY? THAT'S WHAT I MEAN.
MR. COCHRAN: I GAVE --
THE COURT: WAIT, WAIT, WAIT. I'M NOT -- I HAD A QUESTION I WANTED TO ASK.
WHEN I SAY, "MR. COCHRAN," I MEAN STOP TOO.
MR. COCHRAN: I WILL DO THAT.
THE COURT: HOW MANY MORE OF THESE PRIOR CONSISTENT STATEMENTS FROM THE PRELIMINARY HEARING DO YOU HAVE?
MS. CLARK: JUST THIS ONE, AND THEN I AM GOING TO GO OVER THE TIMING ISSUE, WHICH IS OBVIOUSLY IMPORTANT.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: NOW CAN I BE HEARD?
FIRST OF ALL, HE SAID HE WANTED TO CLEAR IT UP. I GAVE HIM A CHANCE TO CLEAR IT UP.
SHE'S GOING OVER THE EXACT SAME GROUND. FURTHERMORE, BY GOING BACK THROUGH THESE QUESTIONS, IT'S AS THOUGH SHE'S TRYING TO CONFUSE THIS JURY.
WHEN A WITNESS, POLICE OFFICER SAYS ONE THING, A WITNESS CORRECTS IT AND THEY TALK ABOUT PRELIMINARY HEARING, IT HAS NOTHING TO DO -- SHE KNOWS IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS CASE. THIS IS A JURY TRIAL AND I HAVE AN ABSOLUTE RIGHT TO GO INTO THAT.
ALSO, YOUR HONOR, THERE'S SOMETHING I FORGOT TO MENTION. CAN I BRING UP ANOTHER SUBJECT AT THIS POINT?
THE COURT: NOT NOW.
MR. COCHRAN: AS SOON AS WE FINISH, I HAVE SOMETHING I HAVE TO BRING UP THAT I INTENDED TO DO IT EARLIER. CAN I DO THAT?
THE COURT: WHAT COULD THAT POSSIBLY BE?
MR. COCHRAN: THAT WOULD BE, THAT PIN SHE IS WEARING, ALL THESE WITNESSES, YOU SAID -- LET ME FINISH.
YOU SAID NOT TO WEAR BADGES AND BUTTONS AND STUFF. AND I NOTICED THIS MORNING, BUT WE WERE SO BUSY, ALL THE NEWS YOU GAVE US TODAY -- THAT'S IMPROPER. THE FIRST WITNESS --
THE COURT: THIS IS SOMETHING WE CAN TAKE UP LATER.
MR. COCHRAN: OKAY.
WELL, THERE'S SO MANY THINGS, THAT I CAN'T --
THE COURT: IT'S BEEN A BUSY DAY.
MR. COCHRAN: YES. BUT I DO WANT TO BRING THIS UP. SHE HAS THAT PIN AND IT'S IMPROPER. THE NEXT THING WILL BE, MR. DARDEN WILL BE COMING IN TOMORROW WITH AN ANGEL ON HIS SHOULDER.
MS. CLARK: HE HAS ONE.
YOUR HONOR, THIS IS RIDICULOUS.
THE COURT: WAIT.
OBJECTION OVERRULED.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT:)
THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
YOU MAY CONTINUE.
MS. CLARK: IS THE OBJECTION OVERRULED?
THE COURT: YES, IT IS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND BACK IN JULY, DID YOU INDICATE WHAT THE EXPLANATION WAS FOR THE -- THAT MINOR DISCREPANCY ABOUT THE REAR -- GOING OUT ON THE REAR PORCH?
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. IT'S CONCLUSIONARY IN FORM.
THE COURT: IT IS CONCLUSIONARY. THE DISCREPANCY.
MS. CLARK: THE DISCREPANCY.
THE COURT: WHETHER IT'S MINOR OR MAJOR IS FOR THE JURY TO DECIDE.
THE WITNESS: YES, I DID TRY TO POINT IT OUT.
Q BY MS. CLARK: AND DO YOU RECALL WHAT THE EXPLANATION WAS THAT YOU GAVE BACK IN JULY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A I BELIEVE I SAID SOMETHING ABOUT A JEEP ALSO, BUT I MAY HAVE BEEN CONFUSED AND SAID IT HAD BEEN PARKED THERE A FEW DAYS EARLIER. AND THAT'S ABOUT ALL I REMEMBER.
Q OKAY.
DO YOU RECALL --
I'M DIRECTING YOUR ATTENTION NOW TO THE STATEMENT THAT COUNSEL BROUGHT UP ABOUT GOING OUT ON THE REAR PORCH IN RESPONSE TO HEARING THE BARKING.
A YES.
Q OKAY.
AND YOU INDICATED TO US THAT YOU DIDN'T ACTUALLY GO OUT ON THE REAR PORCH?
A THAT IS RIGHT. I DID NOT GO ON THE REAR PORCH.
Q DID YOU INDICATE AN EXPLANATION AT THE TIME OF THE PRELIMINARY HEARING BACK IN JULY FOR WHAT THAT MISUNDERSTANDING MIGHT HAVE BEEN?
A YES. I THINK I SAID THAT I BELIEVE THEY MAY HAVE BEEN CONFUSED BECAUSE WE WENT OUT ON THE PORCH, WE BEING THE POLICE AND I, AND LOOKED TOWARD THE RESIDENCE IN QUESTION.
Q AND DID YOU POINT OUT A RESIDENCE TO THEM?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND WHAT RESIDENCE WAS THAT?
A THE ONE THAT WE'VE SEEN PHOTOGRAPHS OF.
Q NOW, EVEN THOUGH WE CAN'T SEE IT FROM THE ANGLE OF YOUR APARTMENT, NEVERTHELESS, THAT PHOTOGRAPH, PEOPLE'S 39 THAT YOU SEE NOW, THAT PHOTOGRAPH, DOES IT ACCURATELY DEPICT THE LOCATION THAT YOU LOOKED IN WHEN YOU HEARD THE BARKING?
A YES.
MR. COCHRAN: OBJECT TO THE FORM OF THE QUESTION. OBJECT TO THE FORM. HE CAN'T EVEN SEE THAT PART OF THE BUILDING. IMPROPER QUESTION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED. SHE ASKED IF IT DEPICTS THE BUILDING, NOT THE PARTICULAR VIEW. SO OBJECTION IS OVERRULED.
Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, THE JEEP THAT YOU SEE IN THIS PHOTOGRAPH, SIR, PEOPLE'S 39, DOES THAT APPEAR TO BE THE SAME JEEP THAT YOU SAW BEING DUSTED FOR FINGERPRINTS BY THE POLICE ON THE MORNING OF JUNE THE 13TH?
A IT APPEARS TO BE THE SAME JEEP, YES.
Q AND THAT'S THE ONE YOU DESCRIBED AS GREEN?
A YES, MA'AM.
Q NOW, YOU RECALL BEING QUESTIONED DURING THE PRELIMINARY HEARING ABOUT WHAT TIME YOU HEARD THE DOG BARKING, WHAT TIME YOU BEGAN TO HEAR IT BARK?
A UH, YES, I DO.
MS. CLARK: AND I'M GOING TO DIRECT COUNSEL'S ATTENTION TO PAGE 27 AT LINE 28. EXCUSE ME. LINE 24.
"QUESTION: AND IT WAS ABOUT 20 OR 25 MINUTES THEN INTO THE NEWSCAST --"
MR. COCHRAN: JUST A MINUTE.
THE COURT: HOLD ON, MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: THIS WAS THE SAME PAGE COUNSEL JUST READ FROM.
MR. COCHRAN: 27.
THE COURT: 27, LINE 24.
MS. CLARK: UH-HUH.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: IS THAT YES?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: THANK YOU.
Q BY MS. CLARK: YOU WERE BEING CROSS-EXAMINED THEN BY MR. UELMEN, AND HE ASKED YOU:
"AND IT WAS ABOUT 20 OR 25 MINUTES THEN INTO THE NEWSCAST THAT YOU FIRST HEARD THE DOG?"
AND YOUR ANSWER WAS:
"NO. I THINK IT WAS ABOUT 15 OR 20 MINUTES INTO --"
EXCUSE ME. WHERE IS 28?
"-- INTO THE NEWSCAST THAT I FIRST HEARD THE DOG."
AND THEN:
"QUESTION: DID YOU HEAR THE DOG CONTINUE TO BARK AS YOU WERE WATCHING THE NEWS?
"ANSWER: YES, I DID."
AND THEN YOU WERE ASKED:
"FOR ABOUT HOW LONG?"
YOU ANSWERED:
"YOU KNOW, FIVE TO SEVEN MINUTES, AND THEN I LEFT."
DO YOU RECALL THOSE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A YES, I DO.
MS. CLARK: AND DIRECTING COUNSEL'S ATTENTION TO PAGE 25.
Q BY MS. CLARK: NOW, YOU'VE INDICATED TO US PREVIOUSLY, SIR, THAT YOU HEARD DOGS BARKING IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD BEFORE?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q SO THAT IN ITSELF WAS NOT UNUSUAL?
A NOT UNUSUAL AT ALL.
Q BUT -- NOW, ON THIS PARTICULAR NIGHT, THE SOUND OF THIS PARTICULAR DOG DID DRAW YOUR ATTENTION?
A YES, IT DID.
Q IT WAS AN UNUSUAL SOUND?
A YES, MA'AM.
MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, LEADING AND SUGGESTIVE, IMPROPER REDIRECT, ALL THOSE REASONS.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
MS. CLARK: AND DIRECTING COUNSEL'S ATTENTION TO PAGE 25.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WHEN YOU WERE ASKED THE FOLLOWING QUESTION AT LINE 16:
"SO IT WAS AN UNUSUAL SURROUNDING BARK TO YOU,"
YOUR ANSWER:
"RIGHT.
"QUESTION: THAT WAS ABOUT 10:15 TO 10:20,"
AND YOUR ANSWER:
"YES."
AND THEN:
"QUESTION: DID THE BARKING STOP OR DID IT CONTINUE?"
YOUR ANSWER:
"WELL, ABOUT THIS TIME, I STOPPED WATCHING THE NEWS AND WENT DOWN TO MY OFFICE AND I DID A LITTLE WORK AND DIDN'T COME BACK UPSTAIRS UNTIL ABOUT 11:00 O'CLOCK."
DO YOU RECALL THOSE QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND THAT IS STILL YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR?
A YES, IT IS.
MS. CLARK: AND ON PAGE 26, COUNSEL.
Q BY MS. CLARK: WITH REFERENCE TO THE TIME WHEN YOU WENT BACK UP TO YOUR ROOM AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, YOU WERE ASKED ABOUT THE BARK THAT YOU HEARD AT THAT TIME.
QUESTION AT LINE 18:
"DID IT SOUND LIKE THE SAME DOG THAT YOU HAD HEARD BARKING EARLIER AT 10:15 OR SO?"
AND YOUR ANSWER:
"YES. IT WAS DEFINITELY THE SAME DOG."
DO YOU RECALL THAT QUESTION AND ANSWER?
A YES, I DO.
Q AND THAT IS ACCURATE?
A YES, IT IS.
Q AND SO IS IT YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR, THAT ON THE NIGHT OF JUNE THE 12TH, 1994 BETWEEN 10:15 AND 10:20, YOU BEGAN TO HEAR A DOG BARKING IN AN UNUSUAL WAY?
MR. COCHRAN: ASKED AND ANSWERED, YOUR HONOR, FOR THE FIFTH TIME.
THE COURT: OVERRULED. OVERRULED.
THE WITNESS: YES, IT IS.
MS. CLARK: THANK YOU, SIR.
I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
NOW, COUNSEL, REFERRING TO THE TRANSCRIPT AT PAGE 26, LINE --
LEAVE THE PHOTOGRAPH ON.
LINE 6 THROUGH 12.
DO YOU HAVE IT, COUNSEL?
RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COCHRAN:
Q "QUESTION: AT 11:00 O'CLOCK, CAN YOU TELL US WHETHER YOU STILL HEARD THE DOG BARKING?
"ANSWER: YES, THE DOG WAS STILL BARKING. I REMEMBER GOING OVER TO THE SHUTTERS AND TAKING A LOOK OUT FOR THE --- TOWARD NICOLE'S BUILDING, AND I SAW SOME LIGHTS ON UPSTAIRS. BUT, YOU KNOW, OF COURSE I COULDN'T PINPOINT, YOU KNOW, WHERE THE DOG -- WHERE EXACTLY THE DOG WAS."
DID YOU SO TESTIFY AT THE PRELIMINARY HEARING?
A YES, I DID.
Q AND, SIR --
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION, YOUR HONOR. COUNSEL DIDN'T FINISH THE PASSAGE. IT GOES ON.
THE COURT: THAT WAS A QUESTION AND ANSWER.
MR. COCHRAN: ON PAGE 31, COUNSEL, BEGINNING AT THE QUESTION AT LINE 1 THROUGH THE QUESTION AT LINE 10.
"QUESTION: NOW, YOU INDICATED YOU WENT TO BED AT ABOUT 11:30?
"ANSWER: I WENT TO BED A LITTLE AFTER 11:00.
"QUESTION: ALL RIGHT.
"ANSWER: AND I READ FOR A WHILE.
"QUESTION: AND THE DOG CONTINUED TO BARK?
"ANSWER: YES, SIR.
"QUESTION: HOW LONG DID THAT BARKING CONTINUE?
"ANSWER: UNTIL I FELL ASLEEP, WHICH MAY HAVE BEEN 11:30 OR 11:40 P.M."
NOW, I WANT YOU TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT PHOTOGRAPH OF 39 AGAIN. I WANT YOU TO LOOK -- CAN YOU SEE THAT CLEARLY? I DON'T KNOW WHAT YOUR MONITOR HAS ON IT, BUT --
MR. COCHRAN: MAY I APPROACH HIS MONITOR, YOUR HONOR, AND SEE?
THE COURT: YOU MAY.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU.
YES. THANK YOU, YOUR HONOR.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: IS THAT -- LOOKING AT THAT MONITOR, DOES THAT LOOK LIKE A DARK GREEN JEEP TO YOU OR DOES THAT LOOK LIKE A BLACK JEEP TO YOU?
A WELL, I'M COLOR BLIND. SO --
Q OH, WELL, THEN OKAY.
A MILDLY COLOR BLIND.
Q MILDLY? DO YOU HAVE TROUBLE DISCERNING DARK GREENS AND BLACKS?
A UH, YES.
Q OKAY.
SO IT'S A DARK COLOR JEEP; IS THAT RIGHT?
A YES.
Q ARE YOU A JOURNALIST OF SOME KIND?
A I WAS FOR MANY YEARS.
MS. CLARK: OBJECTION.
THE COURT: OVERRULED.
Q BY MR. COCHRAN: WERE YOU BACK ON JUNE 12TH, 1994?
A NO, I WAS NOT.
Q YOU WERE NO LONGER A JOURNALIST AT THAT POINT?
A NO, I WAS NOT. I WAS NOT.
MR. COCHRAN: THANK YOU VERY KINDLY. THANK YOU FOR COMING TODAY.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
MS. CLARK: VERY BRIEFLY, YOUR HONOR.
FURTHER REDIRECT EXAMINATION
BY MS. CLARK:
Q MR. FENJVES, YOU WERE JUST ASKED BY COUNSEL ON PAGE 26 THAT YOU WENT OVER TO THE SHUTTERS, YOU SAW SOME LIGHTS UPSTAIRS AND YOU COULDN'T PINPOINT EXACTLY WHERE THE DOG WAS, AND THAT WAS IN RESPONSE TO QUESTIONING ABOUT WHAT YOU DID WHEN YOU HEARD THE BARKING, WHERE YOU LOOKED, WHAT DIRECTION YOU LOOKED IN.
DO YOU RECALL THAT?
A YES.
Q AND THEN:
"QUESTION: SO YOU WERE LOOKING OUT TOWARDS WHERE YOU HEARD THE SOUND COMING FROM OF THE DOG BARKING?
"ANSWER: THAT'S CORRECT.
"QUESTION: AND YOU LOOKED TOWARD NICOLE'S HOUSE?
"ANSWER: THAT IS CORRECT."
DO YOU RECALL GIVING THOSE ANSWERS TO THOSE QUESTIONS, SIR?
A YES, I DO, MA'AM.
Q AND IS THAT STILL YOUR TESTIMONY, SIR?
A YES IT IS, MA'AM.
MS. CLARK: I HAVE NOTHING FURTHER.
MR. COCHRAN: ONE LAST QUESTION.
FURTHER RECROSS-EXAMINATION
BY MR. COCHRAN:
Q WHEN YOU SAID YOU LOOKED TOWARDS NICOLE'S HOUSE, YOU DIDN'T KNOW IT WAS NICOLE'S HOUSE AT THAT TIME. SOMEBODY TOLD YOU THAT; IS THAT RIGHT?
A THAT'S CORRECT.
Q WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
A WELL, OBVIOUSLY IN THE COURSE OF THE --
Q WHO TOLD YOU THAT?
A I CAN'T REMEMBER. I MEAN IT WAS JUST -- IT WAS BASICALLY INTERNATIONAL NEWS.
Q OH, OKAY.
MR. COCHRAN: NOTHING FURTHER.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK.
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: MR. FENJVES, THANK YOU VERY MUCH FOR COMING IN. I'M GOING TO EXCUSE YOU FROM FURTHER TESTIMONY AT THIS TIME.
PLEASE DON'T DISCUSS YOUR TESTIMONY WITH ANYBODY ELSE EXCEPT FOR THE LAWYERS UNTIL THE CASE IS OVER.
DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE ORDER, SIR?
THE WITNESS: THANK YOU.
THE COURT: THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
ALL RIGHT.
NEXT WITNESS. OR YOU WANT TO CALL IT A DAY?
MS. CLARK: I CAN CALL ANOTHER WITNESS.
THE COURT: WHO DO YOU HAVE NEXT?
WHY DON'T YOU APPROACH.
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, WE ARE GOING TO TAKE OUR RECESS FOR THE AFTERNOON AT THIS TIME.
PLEASE REMEMBER MY ADMONITION TO YOU; DON'T DISCUSS THE CASE AMONGST YOURSELVES IN ANY WAY, DON'T FORM ANY OPINIONS ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T ALLOW ANYBODY TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE CASE, DON'T PERFORM ANY DELIBERATIONS UNTIL THE MATTER HAS BEEN SUBMITTED TO YOU AT THE END OF THE CASE.
ALL RIGHT.
HAVE A PLEASANT EVENING. SEE YOU BACK HERE TOMORROW MORNING AT 9:00 O'CLOCK.
THANK YOU.
LET ME ASK COUNSEL TO STAY.
(THE FOLLOWING PROCEEDINGS WERE
HELD IN OPEN COURT, OUT OF THE
PRESENCE OF THE JURY:)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
THE JURY HAS WITHDRAWN FROM THE COURTROOM.
BACK ON THE RECORD.
MR. COCHRAN, YOU HAD A COMMENT YOU WANTED TO MAKE?
MR. COCHRAN: YES. YES, YOUR HONOR, I DO.
AND I WOULD LIKE TO JUST NOTE FOR THE RECORD, YOUR HONOR, THAT TODAY, MISS CLARK --
MR. DARDEN: I'M SORRY. SHOULD THE PUBLIC BE ALLOWED BACK IN FOR THIS?
THE COURT: YEAH.
MR. COCHRAN: IS THIS FOR THE PUBLIC OR FOR YOU?
MR. DARDEN: EVERYTHING YOU DO IS FOR THE PUBLIC, MY BROTHER.
MR. COCHRAN: I'M NOT YOUR BROTHER.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
MR. COCHRAN, YOU HAD SOME COMMENT YOU WANTED TO MAKE TO THE COURT?
MR. COCHRAN: YES. JUST IN PASSING IN THE NATURE OF THE LAST COMMENT FOR THE DAY, YOUR HONOR.
MISS CLARK IS WEARING A -- SOME JEWELRY TODAY WHICH LOOKS VERY, VERY SIMILAR TO THE JEWELRY WORN BY OR THE PIN WORN BY MISS DENISE BROWN. SHE HAD TWO OF THEM ON THE OTHER DAY. AND I THINK THAT IT'S INAPPROPRIATE FOR COUNSEL TO BE WEARING THE SAME THING AS THE WITNESSES. I THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE AND I CALL IT TO YOUR HONOR'S ATTENTION.
AND I WOULD JUST LIKE TO MAKE A RECORD. I THINK IT IS INAPPROPRIATE GIVEN THE FACT -- CERTAINLY MISS BROWN CAN WEAR WHATEVER SHE WANTS TO WEAR. BUT FOR COUNSEL TO COME INTO THE COURTROOM WEARING IT, I THINK IT'S INAPPROPRIATE AND WOULD SO INDICATE.
THE COURT: JUST FOR THE RECORD, YOU MADE YOUR OBJECTION WHEN WE WERE AT A SIDEBAR CONFERENCE THIS AFTERNOON WITHOUT THE COURT REPORTER, CORRECT?
MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS CORRECT. SO I WANTED TO INDICATE --
THE COURT: ABOUT AN HOUR AGO.
MR. COCHRAN: THAT IS CORRECT.
THE COURT: ALL RIGHT.
WHAT DO YOU PROPOSE?
MR. COCHRAN: SHE TAKE IT OFF AND NOT WEAR IT ANYMORE. I DON'T THINK THAT'S APPROPRIATE. I THINK YOU SAID -- YOU MADE IT CLEAR NOT TO WEAR ANY BADGES OR BUTTONS OR ANYTHING OF ANY SUPPORT.
HOW WOULD IT LOOK IF I CAME TO COURT AND I WORE A BIG NO. 32 AND WALKED AROUND HERE IN FRONT OF THIS JURY? I WOULDN'T DO THAT. IT'S JUST LIKE THAT.
SHE'S WEARING THIS THE DAY AFTER MISS DENISE BROWN GETS ON THE STAND. AND THEY MADE SOME MOTION ABOUT SOME EARRING, THIS ANGEL, AND SHE HAD TWO ANGELS ON HER SHOULDER. I DON'T THINK IT IS APPROPRIATE. THAT'S ALL I CAN SAY ABOUT THAT.
THE COURT: MISS CLARK?
MS. CLARK: ANY HUMAN EMOTION --
THE COURT: DO YOU WANT TO DESCRIBE THE ITEM IN QUESTION FIRST SO THE RECORD IS CLEAR?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR. THANK YOU.
IT'S ABOUT MAYBE THREE-QUARTERS OF AN INCH BIG. IT'S A VERY SMALL LITTLE ANGEL.
THE COURT: ANGEL -- GOLD ANGEL WITH WINGS.
MS. CLARK: ANGEL WITH WINGS WITH ARMS OUTSTRETCHED, TOO SMALL FOR ANY DETAIL TO BE SEEN BY THE JURY CERTAINLY.
I AM REALLY SHOCKED AT COUNSEL'S DENUNCIATION OF NOTHING MORE THAN HUMAN EMOTION AND SYMPATHY. IF SYMPATHY IS SO SHOCKING TO COUNSEL, THEN I WONDER WHY HE GOES OUT AND SPEAKS OF SYMPATHY IN SUCH GLORIOUS TONES WHEN HE'S INTERVIEWED BY THE PRESS EVERY DAY ON THE STEPS OF THE COURTHOUSE.
IF MR. -- OBVIOUSLY WHAT MR. COCHRAN'S THINKING IS THAT WHAT'S SAUCE FOR THE GOOSE ISN'T SAUCE FOR THE GANDER.
THIS IS VERY SMALL. MR. COCHRAN WEARS PINS EVERY DAY THAT ARE CLEARLY VISIBLE TO THE JURY.
NOT ONLY THAT, BUT WITH ALL THE CONSTANT BARRAGE OF PUBLICITY THAT HE ENGAGES IN SYMPATHETIC TO HIS CLIENT, SYMPATHETIC TO HIS WITNESSES, DENOUNCING THE PEOPLE'S CASE AND THE PEOPLE'S WITNESSES AND THE VICTIMS IN THIS INSIDIOUS WAY, I THINK IT'S VERY INAPPROPRIATE FOR HIM OF ALL PEOPLE TO COME FORWARD TO THIS COURT AND COMPLAIN ABOUT SOMETHING AS MINOR AS SHOWING SUPPORT FOR THE VICTIMS IN A SYMBOL-LIKE WAY THAT IS NOT PROCLAIMING LIKE WEARING THE NO. 32.
IT'S A VERY SMALL SHOW OF SUPPORT THAT IS VERY TASTEFUL, VERY UNDERSTATED AND NOTHING CLEARLY AS PREJUDICIAL AS THE REMARKS HE MAKES CONSTANTLY TO THE PRESS AND THE PRESS CONFERENCES HE TRIES TO HOLD IN COURT AS WELL AS OUTSIDE OF THE COURT. I THINK THAT IF ANYONE SHOULD COME FORWARD AND MAKE THIS ARGUMENT, IT SHOULD BE ONE WITH CLEAN HANDS, AND WE DON'T HAVE ONE ON THAT SIDE OF COUNSEL TABLE.
SO I WOULD STRONGLY URGE THE COURT TO DENY THIS RIDICULOUS MOTION AND REQUEST TO SUPPRESS ANY SYMPATHY OR HUMAN EMOTION THAT MIGHT BE APPROPRIATE GIVEN TO THE SIDE OF THE VICTIMS WHO AFTER ALL, ARE TWO YOUNG PEOPLE WHO WERE BRUTALLY MURDERED.
MR. COCHRAN: ABSOLUTELY, YOUR HONOR. AND I JOIN IN SYMPATHY FOR THE VICTIMS. BUT YOUR HONOR SAID WE WERE NOT TO WEAR BUTTONS, BADGES OR WHATEVER. NEXT DAY, SHE SHOWS UP WITH IT.
NOW, OUR JURY IS SEQUESTERED. ANY STATEMENTS WE ARE MAKING WHEN WE LEAVE THIS COURTROOM OUR JURORS NEVER SEE. BUT PARADING, WALKING BACK AND FORTH SHOWING CLOTHES 200 TIMES TODAY WITH THAT ANGEL --
THE COURT: MR. COCHRAN, THOSE KINDS OF ARGUMENTS ABOUT, "HE DID THIS AND SHE DID THAT," AND POINTING FINGERS BACK AND FORTH AND ALL THE OTHER TRANSGRESSIONS, REAL OR IMAGINARY, DON'T REALLY PERSUADE ME ONE WAY OR THE OTHER.
THE ISSUE IS, THE LAPEL PIN THAT MISS CLARK HAS, WHETHER OR NOT IT'S IDENTIFIABLE WITH ONE SIDE OR THE OTHER.
MR. COCHRAN: IT IS.
THE COURT: MS. CLARK CONCEDES IT IS SHE SAYS AN EXPRESSION OF SUPPORT. SO ISN'T REALLY THE ISSUE THAT PIN AND NOT ABOUT ALL THESE OTHER THINGS?
MR. COCHRAN: YOU'RE PROBABLY RIGHT. AS THE COURT SAID, IT HAS BEEN A LONG DAY AND I APPRECIATE THE COURT'S FOCUS BACK ON THIS ISSUE.
THE ISSUE IS YOUR ORDER TO ALL OF US TO COMPLY WITH, AND SHE IS VIOLATING THAT ORDER. SHE CAN ENGAGE IN ALL THE SELF-SERVING RHETORIC SHE WANTS TO. THE ISSUE IS, YOU ORDERED US NOT TO DO THAT.
AND SHE CAN BE SUPPORTIVE AND I WANT HER TO BE SUPPORTIVE AS A REPRESENTATIVE OF THE PEOPLE. SHE REPRESENTS ALL OF US. SO THAT'S FINE. SHE CAN DO HER JOB. SHE'S A FINE LAWYER. BUT SHE DOESN'T HAVE TO WEAR THIS PIN BECAUSE IT'S INAPPROPRIATE BECAUSE YOU TOLD US NOT TO DO IT. THAT'S THE ISSUE PURE AND SIMPLE.
SO I ASK YOU TO DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH ANY SYMPATHY TOWARDS THE VICTIMS. IT'S YOUR ORDER AND IT WAS ENTIRELY APPROPRIATELY MADE.
WHAT HAPPENS IN THE COURTROOM IS VERY APPROPRIATE. NOT OUTSIDE. OUR JURY CAN SEE THIS AS OPPOSED TO ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS OUTSIDE THE COURTROOM. THAT'S WHY THEY ARE SEQUESTERED.
MS. CLARK: YOUR HONOR, IF THIS WAS A BADGE OR BUTTON WITH THE PICTURES OF THE VICTIMS ON IT, I COULD UNDERSTAND COUNSEL'S CONCERN. BUT, YOU KNOW, THIS IS NOT ANYTHING BUT A SYMBOL. I'M SURE THAT THE JURORS DON'T HAVE ANY IDEA WHAT IT MEANS. IT IS SOMETHING THAT IS KNOWN WITHIN THE FAMILIES. IT MAY BE INDEED KNOWN TO THE PUBLIC NOW.
BUT AS MR. COCHRAN SAID, THE JURY IS SEQUESTERED. IT IS A SYMBOLIC GESTURE, BUT NOT BEYOND BEING PALATABLE TO THE JURY. IT'S VERY SMALL. I DON'T THINK ANYBODY IN THE JURY CAN TELL IT'S AN ANGEL FROM THE DISTANCE THEY ARE AT FROM ME.
AND I THINK THE COURT CAN REST ASSURED THAT THERE IS NO PREJUDICE THAT'S INURING TO THE DEFENDANT AS A RESULT OF THIS. AND I EVEN FIND COUNSEL'S CONCERN IN THIS REGARD REMARKABLE, SOME LITTLE PIN THAT THE JURY CAN BARELY SEE ME WEAR HAS GOT HIM ALL EXCITED TODAY. I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND IT, ESPECIALLY IN VIEW OF THE CONDUCT OF COUNSEL.
IF THERE'S BEEN ANYTHING INAPPROPRIATE IN THIS CASE, IT'S THE CONDUCT OF COUNSEL BEFORE THIS JURY AND THE KIND OF SPEAKING OBJECTIONS WE ARE CONSTANTLY GETTING AND PRESS CONFERENCES COUNSEL IS ALWAYS TRYING TO HOLD WHEREVER HE GOES.
SO I REALLY -- EXCUSE ME, YOUR HONOR.
(DISCUSSION HELD OFF THE RECORD
BETWEEN THE DEPUTY DISTRICT
ATTORNEYS.)
MS. CLARK: AND AS MY LEARNED COCOUNSEL POINTS OUT ACCURATELY, MR. COCHRAN IS ALWAYS COMING TO COURT WEARING A CROSS, YOU KNOW. I MEAN THESE ARE ALL SYMBOLS AND GESTURES. HIS IS EVEN MORE EXPLICIT. YOU KNOW, IF WE'RE GOING TO TAKE OFF PINS, LET'S ALL TAKE OFF PINS.
MR. COCHRAN: YOUR HONOR, WHAT I'M WEARING TODAY --
THE COURT: NO. MR. COCHRAN, YOU HAVE A WIDE ASSORTMENT OF LAPEL PINS.
MR. COCHRAN: MY PINS ARE NOT IDENTIFIED WITH O.J. SIMPSON, YOUR HONOR.
AND AGAIN, YOUR HONOR, I WOULD POINT OUT AS AN OFFICER OF THE COURT, SHE'S DOING WHAT YOU TOLD US NOT TO DO, AND WHAT SHE FAILS TO UNDERSTAND IS, SHE'S WEARING THIS IN COURT WHERE THE JURORS CAN SEE IT.
AND IF YOU RECALL, SHE TRIED TO ELICIT TESTIMONY FROM MISS DENISE BROWN ABOUT THE EARRING, WEARING THE ONE EARRING WHERE WE STOPPED THAT. SHE TRIED TO ELICIT TESTIMONY WHY SHE WAS WEARING THIS JEWELRY.
WE HAVE AN OBLIGATION TO OUR CLIENT TO BRING THIS UP AND I DON'T WANT TO BELABOR IT ANY FURTHER. AND SHE MAKES THESE LONG SPEECHES, BUT THE FACT REMAINS, SHE HAS IT ON AND SHE SHOULDN'T HAVE IT ON AND WE ASK YOU TO ASK HER TO REMOVE IT.
MS. CLARK: LET ME EXPLAIN ONE THING TO THE COURT. COUNSEL IS MAKING A MISREPRESENTATION TO THE COURT.
WE WERE ASKING MISS BROWN TO TESTIFY TO THE FACT THAT NICOLE WORE MIX-MATCHED EARRINGS, ONE DANGLING ONE, ONE STUD, NOT AN ANGEL AT ALL. COUNSEL GETS ALL EXCITED AND GETS WORRIED, YOU KNOW, ABOUT THE FACT OF THAT JEWELRY. COUNSEL STILL HAS IT WRONG.
ALL WE WANTED FROM DENISE WAS TO TESTIFY THAT SHE WORE MIX-MATCHED EARRINGS BECAUSE THAT'S WHAT THEY FOUND, ONE DANGLING, ONE STUD, ON NICOLE. THAT'S ALL. AND COUNSEL WAS SO WORRIED ABOUT THIS JEWELRY COMING OUT BEFORE THEY EVEN KNOW WHAT THE ANSWER TO THE QUESTION MIGHT BE.
BUT THE TRUTH OF THE MATTER IS, WE WERE NOT GOING TO ELICIT ANY TESTIMONY ABOUT AN ANGEL, REST ASSURED OF THAT. WE WERE GOING TO ELICIT ONLY THE TESTIMONY I'VE INDICATED. AND IT WAS THE APPROPRIATE THING TO DO GIVEN COUNSEL'S INSISTENCE ON TRYING TO PORTRAY THIS AS A ROBBERY OR BURGLARY MURDER, AND THAT'S ALL WE WERE TRYING TO DO.
THE COURT: TO MY RECOLLECTION, WE'VE ONLY HAD ONE MEMBER OF THE BROWN FAMILY TESTIFY THUS FAR, CORRECT?
MS. CLARK: THAT'S CORRECT.
THE COURT: I SEE YOU HAVE A SIMILAR, ALTHOUGH NOT IDENTICAL PIECE OF JEWELRY THAT DENISE BROWN HAD.
MS. CLARK: RIGHT.
THE COURT: I DON'T RECALL IF THE GOLDMAN FAMILY WEARS THE SAME JEWELRY. I DID NOT NOTICE ANYTHING ON KIMBERLY GOLDMAN.
MS. CLARK: NO. I DIDN'T EITHER.
THE COURT: ALTHOUGH, TO TELL YOU THE TRUTH, JEWELRY IS NOT MY FORTE AS SOMEBODY WHO WEARS PLASTIC WATCHES. I MEAN THIS IS NOT SOMETHING I PAY ATTENTION TO.
MISS CLARK, MY CONCERN THOUGH IS YOUR CONCESSION THAT IT IS A SHOW OF SUPPORT. AND IF EITHER FAMILY IS WEARING THESE AS SOME SYMBOL, THEN -- AND IF IT IS POSSIBLE FOR THE JURY TO IDENTIFY IT AS SUCH, THEN IT'S PROBABLY NOT APPROPRIATE.
AND IF THE FAMILY MEMBERS ARE GOING TO FURTHER TESTIFY AND WEAR THESE THINGS IN COURT -- I AGREE WITH YOU, THEY ARE VERY SUBTLE, VERY SMALL. BUT I DON'T BELIEVE IT'S APPROPRIATE FOR COUNSEL TO WEAR ONE OF THESE.
ALL RIGHT.
MS. CLARK: THEN, YOU KNOW, I DON'T KNOW WHO'S WEARING IT ANYMORE, YOUR HONOR. IF WE COULD ASK THE COURT TO DEFER ITS RULING UNTIL WE SEE WHAT THE FAMILY LOOKS LIKE IN THE MORNING.
THE COURT: COUNSEL, I'VE TOLD YOU I FEEL IT'S INAPPROPRIATE. I PLAN ON DOING ANOTHER LEXIS SEARCH ON THESE TYPES OF THINGS, BUT I THINK IN THE MORNING, I'M GOING TO REAFFIRM THE RULING.
MS. CLARK: OKAY.
THE COURT: THANK YOU, COUNSEL.
(BRIEF PAUSE.)
THE COURT: MISS CLARK, YOU HAD WITNESSES YOU WANTED ORDERED BACK?
MS. CLARK: YES, YOUR HONOR.
THE COURT: WHO IS THAT?
MS. CLARK: EVA STEIN, LOUIS KARPF, K-A-R-P-F, SUKRU BOZTEPE, STEVEN SCHWAB.
THE COURT: EACH OF YOU ARE ORDERED TO RETURN TO THIS COURTHOUSE TOMORROW MORNING, 8:30 A.M.
REPORT TO THE DISTRICT ATTORNEY.
DO YOU EACH UNDERSTAND THAT ORDER?
(THE WITNESSES NODDED IN THE
AFFIRMATIVE.)
THE COURT: ALL NODDED IN THE AFFIRMATIVE.
MISS BOZTEPE, DO YOU UNDERSTAND THAT?
THANK YOU VERY MUCH.
LET ME SEE COUNSEL WITHOUT THE REPORTER.
(A CONFERENCE WAS HELD AT THE BENCH, NOT REPORTED.)
